ZERO INCOME UNDER LLC

MY HUSBAND & I BOTH HAVE F/T JOBS. WE CREATED OUR LLC BACK IN APRIL FOR REI. DURING THIS YEAR WE HAVEN'T PURCHASED ANY R.E. THE ONLY THING WE'VE SPENT OUR MONEY ON SO FAR WAS ON RE BOOKS, SEMINARS, MEETINGS AND TAPES. CAN WE DEDUCT THESE EXPENSES UNDER THE LLC EVEN THOUGH WE HAVEN'T GENERATED A PENNY THROUGH THE BUSINESS YET? ALSO, WE ARE THINKING ABOUT PURCHASING A TRUCK (6,000 LBS) FOR THE BUSINESS, CAN WE GET THE TAX DEDUCTION UNDER OUR BUSINESS EVEN THOUGH WE HAVEN'T MADE ANY MONEY THRU THE BUSINESS YET? oh oh

Comments(8)

  • joel24th October, 2003

    Please turn off your Caps Lock.

  • InActive_Account24th October, 2003

    One question first. You said you setup the LLC already. So you filed w/ the sec. of state. Did you apply for a tax ID with the IRS?

  • InActive_Account24th October, 2003

    Yes, I set it up, and I also have a Tax id# for the LLC

  • mcl819024th October, 2003

    Sure, you can take the losses this year.

    You don't need to have revenue from the business in order to write off the losses. You have found investors (yourselves) and have spent this year setting up the company (purchasing equipment, training, etc) , that's not abnormal. The IRS will start looking at this if you go several years without income, but one is fine.

    Just think of the dot-coms out there that lost billions of dollars of investment money and never had any revenue

  • InActive_Account24th October, 2003

    Well, here's my take. At this point, there really is no income for the LLC to report. I believe the LLC still has to file a return, and I'm guessing they can file a return w/ 0's. If it were me, I would call all the expenses you've incurred so far, the books, classes, etc, investment expenses. Investment expenses would report your investment expenses on Schedule A, but they will be subject to the 2% of AGI floor. I don't think at this time you would be able to get away w/ a company vehicle. However, you can deduct the mileage for traveling to and from the seminars.

    I've never really heard about forming the LLC before there is really a business. Any other suggestions?

  • myfrogger24th October, 2003

    A rule of thumb I have heard many times it that your business needs to show a profit after 3 years. You are showing a loss this year in taxes and might be able to offset other income with these losses! I would consult a tax advisor regarding purchasing a truck.

    I have stronger feelings of why you shouldn't buy a truck for financial decisions rather than tax decisions. Buying almost any type of vehicle is a liabilty. Accountants may view it is an asset but imagine this defination: An asset is something that puts money in your pocket while a liabiltiy is something that takes money from your pocket.

    You take the money you have. Is it smarter to put it into something that makes you money or costs you money?

    About the only time that you can throw out this logic is when you absolutly need something to drive for work purposes. Consider what I did...buy a 1985 chevy van with ladder racks for $1000. It surely doesn't look nice and my friends and family make fun of me for driving it but it is a lot less costly and gets the same job done.

    Just my 2 cents. GOOD LUCK

  • InActive_Account24th October, 2003

    The Frog Man is right. You will have some time to prove that you are a legitimate business. However, I personally would still go with the schedule A, more conservative approach. The reason is, there really isn't a legitimate business, yet. I certainly don't want to discourage, and you're definitely on the right track, but the fact is there's a chance you may not end up investing in real estate. For that reason, until I had one property under my belt, I would be conservative.

    As far as viewing vehicles as liabilities rather than assets, classic Rich Dad Poor Dad philosophy. And I agree. However, if you were purchasing a vehicle because you need and want a new vehicle, that's a great thing about rei. The fact that you can buy something you need and want, and be able to use it as a tax write-off.

    Good luck!

  • InActive_Account29th October, 2003

    The IRS states that expenses paid for prior to the start of business is considered "Business Startup Expenses". These are not deductible currently but need to be amortized over 5 years after the business has begun. When the business has begun is a bit of a grey area but I would argue that after you have entered into your first purchase contract the business has begun. The LLC is required to file a tax return even if it is all O's.

    I also agree that you don't want to spend money just because of a tax deduction. You want to make as much as possible and keep what you can after taxes. There are ways to create some tax deductions from expenses you otherwise would be making (ie. auto expenses & purchases) but you buy your vehicle because you need it and then structure your expenses around your business to make it deductible if possible.

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