Most likely if the seller accepts your offer they will have to pay the listing agent a commission unless the listing has expired. Most listing contracts are written that way. Finding a good real estate agent who is adaptable to creative terms is difficult. When you do find one do all of your transactions through him/her. The bad news is there are usually two agents involved so even though you may have a good one they still have to sell it to and through the other.
Yes you can make an offer directly to the property owner - you are not subject to the property owners listing agent, as the obligation is between the agent and the listing party not you.
[addsig]
Yes you are correct but as a buyer I have no obligation towards the sellers listing agent and see no point in contacting the listing agent as I can make the pitch my self and much better than the listing agent.
The listing agent does not represent me and using them to make my discount offer truly for me as an investor serves no purpose.
I recommend to all investors to deal directly with the property owners, as you will represent yourself in most cases in a much better manner.
The listing agents job is to get top dollars an investors job is to get the best discount possible who would better sell your low offer yourself or the listing agent?
[addsig]
Another question I had about RE Agents is would it be illegal to pay the RE agent to just put me directly thru to private sellers and some how convince them to avoid all the paper work and just accept an agreed amount of cash for the information of the seller. Is there a better way for a seller to get rid of an RE agent after he/she has just listed a property with them about a week or so? Theres a property iam looking at but this agent will not let me meet or get in touch with the seller and the commission fee of this agent is whats going to kill my plans for the property I have in mind. If I can get rid of this agent it will save me and the seller about 17K of extra cash that I dont have. any input will help!!
i have never used an agent to submit offers and probably never will, you can submit an offer yourself just as an agent would, and the listing agent still under law has to present that offer. therefore eliminating the commision that you would pay to your realtor just to submitt an offer. as long as you know what your doing you dont need your own agent.
as far as canceling listings goes, yes its different in everystate. some times you can pay the realtor some or all of there fee to drop the listing. example would be a foreclosure where you have to negotiate with the lender and the listing agent might not be able to sell in time before the bank forecloses. in that scenario you have leverage over the realtor, and may be able to pay them off.
as far as paying them for the sellers information, would probably be unethical and would violate there contractual rights with the seller. although there are some pretty unethical, and sleazy realtors out there so that probably could happen.[ Edited by ZinOrganization on Date 02/22/2005 ]
right Nancy, but they can present it to the sellers agent, and by law in most states the sellers agent has to present that offer no matter what to the seller. they can scrutinize it all they want but it still has to be presented. in some cases the buyers realtor will even make the sellers agent get the seller to initial the non acceptance of the offer.
Nancy are you saying if I wanted my agent to present the offer he cant??? and if the answer is no why not??
It look like there would be a law that just states that the listing agent of the property shall grant all buyers agents the access to present the offer directly to the seller.. and the listing agent still gets a profit!! I dont see why my offer must be past through an secondary agent.. Where could I look up RE laws??? How do we being the buyer know that the sellers agent didnt talk him out of the offer??[ Edited by 5MILLIONMORE on Date 02/23/2005 ]
The biggest problem is not presenting an offer to the seller but the fact that the seller will have to pay a commission to their agent no matter who buys their property in most cases.
They are selling with an agent because they perceive it to be safer and less trouble. For this peace of mind they pay 6-7%
I think that you can make your pitch anyways to the seller, just take to their agent and tell them you would like to be present to make the offer.
[addsig]
5mill - you can request anything you want of your agent, thats what they get paid for.
the realtor job has alot to do with talking on the phone, so they usually dont meet up with the sellers agent to present an offer. its more like call them and fax over the offer.
like stockpro said, the biggest problem with making an offer thats far below the asking price is that the listing agent might not submitt it or toss it right in the trash because they are unethical and want to make the most on there commission. thats why your agent should request that the sellers actually initial a declined offer so you know that the seller got it. obviously shady realtors may initial it themselves and not submitt it.
Or do what John Micheal said and say screw the listing agent and go knock on the sellers door and submitt the damn offer yourself so you know they got it.
I am a realtor and a lot of what I have heard is wrong. a job of a realtor is to SELL the home. the seller sets the price they want to get for it, not the realtor. I will run similar comps and show the seller a good look at the market, but that is it. so it is in my best interest to present all offers to my seller. I am more worried about not selling the property than I am the amount of commission. keep in mind a realtor does not get the 6-7 percent in commission. you have to split that commission between the listing agent and the selling agent. then you split it again with your broker, and then there are a few little fees that the realtor has to pay. so in the end your talking about the realtor getting 2.5 to 2.8 percent of whatever the home sells for. with that said, if a home is listed for 150k and you come in at 100k offer, the difference in commission is not that much. another thing to keep in mind is the market you are in. our market right now is smoking hot. full price offers are sometimes not getting the home. pre-qual letters are a must, and so is larger earnest money deposits. we have jokers come in every now and then and low ball and with "subject tos". before a client even has time to consider his offer here comes another one that is full price with a pre-qual letter and no subject to games. this is why I get so upset when investors say "hey you can invest anywhere and if your anyone". sure, come over here big talkers and lets see you do it. dont get me wrong we have investors here, but they come in with pre-qual investment loans with lots of money down. I was an investor before I became an agent so I know both sides of the coin. many people on this site dont know the realtor side and its partly the industrys fault due to all the slime ball realtors in the world. anyways, that was way to long of a post, sorry. but if you come over here and send my client a low offer I will gladly present it, but keep in mind most clients arent idiots, they know what there home is worth.
who said that its the realtors job to set the price?
yes we all know that the realtors split the commision so they are not making the whole 5-6% thats common sense. but somtimes you can negotiate with the listing agent that if a buyer comes in without a realtor then they will get less of a commission. thats what i do. and yes i have seen realtors who only care about there commision and not about there client, especially when there client is in foreclosure and needs out fast. they still list the house at F.M.V. and expect to get it. obviously every market is different and sounds like this is not the case in your market. just remember markets change.
now maybe you are an ethical realtor, but you simply cant depend on the listing agent to be an ethical realtor when you hear the horror stories. thats why i like John Micheals approach.
"we have jokers come in every now and then and low ball and with "subject tos". before a client even has time to consider his offer here comes another one that is full price with a pre-qual letter and no subject to games. this is why I get so upset when investors say "hey you can invest anywhere and if your anyone". sure, come over here big talkers and lets see you do it" . "I was an investor before I became an agent"
maybe that is why you are a realtor and not an investor anymore.
i think you missunderstood the topic of the original post. anyways the only properties i would make a low ball offer on are the ones that are in foreclosure and are listed, because i know i can. im not going to go to some mcmansion owned by the president of some corporation and offer them half price for there house, but that shouldnt keep any savy investor from doing it.
maybe my view is "old fashioned" but i see most realtors as house wifes who think the job is a walk in the park, and just like to dress up nice and talk on the phone for a few hours and take the rest of the day off. no granted there are a few good realtors out there, but in my perspective not many.
good day.
[ Edited by ZinOrganization on Date 02/24/2005 ]
I think last I checked there were about 500k realtors in the nation. and what is your "experience" with them..10 maybe 20 realtors you have known? so I think you would agree with me that your "experience" is pretty useless. No, I didnt misunderstand the post. someone earlier said a realtor is just concerned about his 6-7 percent commission. that would imply that they think one realtor recieves 6-7 percent since his sentence was in the singular form. so I guess it is not common sense that a realtor does not recieve the full 6-7 percent. not to mention I talk with people all the time that think we get the full commission. and I dont remember anywhere in my post that said I wasnt a investor anymore. I still am, I just havent been doing it long enough to make it full time, but I will. and you are obviously ignorant about what an agent does, and thats ok, I was to before I became one. and our market is so competative that the foreclosures almost never go for the starting price. so come on over here and low ball some offers, we love a good laugh. good luck! it sounds like your doing great!
the origianl topic of this post was - "Is it necessary to deal with RE listing agents when making an offer on a property" before you got into your macho realtor garbo.
and the short answer is no, you dont have to.
you may know many homeowners who have never sold there house with a realtor and dont know that the realtor splits his commision with the buyers agent and broker, but for most actual investors it is common sense.
and you are being ignorant about what investors do, i could care less about what the odds are that a house will sell above the asking price, a good investor will put in his/her offer either way.
im sure you get annoyed by low offers and im sure you get a great kick out of it, but ultimitly its not your decision its the home owners. after all your supposedly working for them.
sounds like your a great realtor keep up the good work.[ Edited by ZinOrganization on Date 02/25/2005 ]
dlitedan,
Have you ever refuse to show an offer or ever suggested to a buyer not to offer a certain type of deal because you didnt agree with it? The house that made me originally post this topic I lost because the RE agent refuse to show the offer. It may not have been good to her but she isnt in the sellers situation!
I could have made a 29k profit of the deal if only it was another agent that knew more about what I was offering. The RE agent told me It would be a good ideal to offer more cash because the seller she represents has refuse offers of that nature before. The house was being sold for 34.5K its FMV was 73.3K I offered 44K for the property with 10K down and asking the seller for short term financing for 3 years. At the end of the 3rd year the balance would be paid in full. mostly all investors in my area are trying to talk the sellers down I went up on the price and still turn out and lost. Its ok thoughwe learn from our mistakes!!
No, I present all offers. I leave it up to my clients to decide if they want to take it or not. I may explain the deal so they better understand it, and I will give my opinion if they ask for it, but thats it. most clients can read an offer and figure out what the bottom line is. and thats all thats important to them, the bottom line. I dont defend all realtors because there are so many bad ones. infact, thats why I became one, I knew there was an oppurtunity to show people I am not a used car salesman just trying to close the deal. I give my clients educated information that they choose to use how they want. being an investor I may be able to explain a complicated offer rather than just say "oh this guy is trying to rip you off!" but keep in mind for every sleazy real estate agent there is a sleazy investor who tries to get what he wants at any expense. the problem is you really need to find a good realtor because if you want true access to everything that is out there then you need to get plugged into the mls. I had a house a long time ago I tried to sell fsbo and in 2 weeks didnt get any offers and 2 showings. I put it for sale by an agency and 30 people came to look and I had a full price offer in 3 weeks. It just goes to show you that although you and I are not afraid to buy without a realtor, the majority are. if you cant beat em, join em. good luck.
good response. yes it appears you are an ethical realtor, and work for your clients best interest. thats a good thing. you are right my view may be slightly tainted since im on the other side of the fence, but i do know a number of realtors and have friends who are realtors. so i do get to see what goes on and how unethical some people can be. these are nice people, but they put there interests ahead of there clients. and you are right there is just as many sleazy investors as realtors out there and i have had my fair share of incounters with them too.
I just hate to see the posters original question get lost in our bikering. anyways good day to you.
misshelen, thats a good point. my broker encourages us to contact the listing agent and meet with them and there sellers to present the offer. Most agents though are not very open to this, they think you will get in front of there sellers and embaress them or say something they dont like. I think presenting the offer directly to the seller and there agent is a lost form. it would be nice to see that again.
Join a local real estate association, great way to begin in the business with money, get eduacted and meet successful people.
gl,
MT
[addsig]
Most likely if the seller accepts your offer they will have to pay the listing agent a commission unless the listing has expired. Most listing contracts are written that way. Finding a good real estate agent who is adaptable to creative terms is difficult. When you do find one do all of your transactions through him/her. The bad news is there are usually two agents involved so even though you may have a good one they still have to sell it to and through the other.
Yes you can make an offer directly to the property owner - you are not subject to the property owners listing agent, as the obligation is between the agent and the listing party not you.
[addsig]
Yes you are correct but as a buyer I have no obligation towards the sellers listing agent and see no point in contacting the listing agent as I can make the pitch my self and much better than the listing agent.
The listing agent does not represent me and using them to make my discount offer truly for me as an investor serves no purpose.
I recommend to all investors to deal directly with the property owners, as you will represent yourself in most cases in a much better manner.
The listing agents job is to get top dollars an investors job is to get the best discount possible who would better sell your low offer yourself or the listing agent?
[addsig]
JohnMicheal,
You said it exactly how I wanted to say it!! I feel that I can represent myself better when making an low offer.
Thanks for the input fellas!!
Another question I had about RE Agents is would it be illegal to pay the RE agent to just put me directly thru to private sellers and some how convince them to avoid all the paper work and just accept an agreed amount of cash for the information of the seller. Is there a better way for a seller to get rid of an RE agent after he/she has just listed a property with them about a week or so? Theres a property iam looking at but this agent will not let me meet or get in touch with the seller and the commission fee of this agent is whats going to kill my plans for the property I have in mind. If I can get rid of this agent it will save me and the seller about 17K of extra cash that I dont have. any input will help!!
i have never used an agent to submit offers and probably never will, you can submit an offer yourself just as an agent would, and the listing agent still under law has to present that offer. therefore eliminating the commision that you would pay to your realtor just to submitt an offer. as long as you know what your doing you dont need your own agent.
as far as canceling listings goes, yes its different in everystate. some times you can pay the realtor some or all of there fee to drop the listing. example would be a foreclosure where you have to negotiate with the lender and the listing agent might not be able to sell in time before the bank forecloses. in that scenario you have leverage over the realtor, and may be able to pay them off.
as far as paying them for the sellers information, would probably be unethical and would violate there contractual rights with the seller. although there are some pretty unethical, and sleazy realtors out there so that probably could happen.[ Edited by ZinOrganization on Date 02/22/2005 ]
Thanks guys for the info. I guess its better to just find a more compatible RE agent then!!
misshelen - you cant present an offer to the seller, how come? does it have to be the asking price or something?
right Nancy, but they can present it to the sellers agent, and by law in most states the sellers agent has to present that offer no matter what to the seller. they can scrutinize it all they want but it still has to be presented. in some cases the buyers realtor will even make the sellers agent get the seller to initial the non acceptance of the offer.
Nancy are you saying if I wanted my agent to present the offer he cant??? and if the answer is no why not??
It look like there would be a law that just states that the listing agent of the property shall grant all buyers agents the access to present the offer directly to the seller.. and the listing agent still gets a profit!! I dont see why my offer must be past through an secondary agent.. Where could I look up RE laws??? How do we being the buyer know that the sellers agent didnt talk him out of the offer??[ Edited by 5MILLIONMORE on Date 02/23/2005 ]
The biggest problem is not presenting an offer to the seller but the fact that the seller will have to pay a commission to their agent no matter who buys their property in most cases.
They are selling with an agent because they perceive it to be safer and less trouble. For this peace of mind they pay 6-7%
I think that you can make your pitch anyways to the seller, just take to their agent and tell them you would like to be present to make the offer.
[addsig]
stockpro99,
Can I request that my agent be present at all offers and that he/she makes the offer?
5mill - you can request anything you want of your agent, thats what they get paid for.
the realtor job has alot to do with talking on the phone, so they usually dont meet up with the sellers agent to present an offer. its more like call them and fax over the offer.
like stockpro said, the biggest problem with making an offer thats far below the asking price is that the listing agent might not submitt it or toss it right in the trash because they are unethical and want to make the most on there commission. thats why your agent should request that the sellers actually initial a declined offer so you know that the seller got it. obviously shady realtors may initial it themselves and not submitt it.
Or do what John Micheal said and say screw the listing agent and go knock on the sellers door and submitt the damn offer yourself so you know they got it.
ZIN,
That can not legally throw out our offers can they??
I am a realtor and a lot of what I have heard is wrong. a job of a realtor is to SELL the home. the seller sets the price they want to get for it, not the realtor. I will run similar comps and show the seller a good look at the market, but that is it. so it is in my best interest to present all offers to my seller. I am more worried about not selling the property than I am the amount of commission. keep in mind a realtor does not get the 6-7 percent in commission. you have to split that commission between the listing agent and the selling agent. then you split it again with your broker, and then there are a few little fees that the realtor has to pay. so in the end your talking about the realtor getting 2.5 to 2.8 percent of whatever the home sells for. with that said, if a home is listed for 150k and you come in at 100k offer, the difference in commission is not that much. another thing to keep in mind is the market you are in. our market right now is smoking hot. full price offers are sometimes not getting the home. pre-qual letters are a must, and so is larger earnest money deposits. we have jokers come in every now and then and low ball and with "subject tos". before a client even has time to consider his offer here comes another one that is full price with a pre-qual letter and no subject to games. this is why I get so upset when investors say "hey you can invest anywhere and if your anyone". sure, come over here big talkers and lets see you do it. dont get me wrong we have investors here, but they come in with pre-qual investment loans with lots of money down. I was an investor before I became an agent so I know both sides of the coin. many people on this site dont know the realtor side and its partly the industrys fault due to all the slime ball realtors in the world. anyways, that was way to long of a post, sorry. but if you come over here and send my client a low offer I will gladly present it, but keep in mind most clients arent idiots, they know what there home is worth.
who said that its the realtors job to set the price?
yes we all know that the realtors split the commision so they are not making the whole 5-6% thats common sense. but somtimes you can negotiate with the listing agent that if a buyer comes in without a realtor then they will get less of a commission. thats what i do. and yes i have seen realtors who only care about there commision and not about there client, especially when there client is in foreclosure and needs out fast. they still list the house at F.M.V. and expect to get it. obviously every market is different and sounds like this is not the case in your market. just remember markets change.
now maybe you are an ethical realtor, but you simply cant depend on the listing agent to be an ethical realtor when you hear the horror stories. thats why i like John Micheals approach.
"we have jokers come in every now and then and low ball and with "subject tos". before a client even has time to consider his offer here comes another one that is full price with a pre-qual letter and no subject to games. this is why I get so upset when investors say "hey you can invest anywhere and if your anyone". sure, come over here big talkers and lets see you do it" . "I was an investor before I became an agent"
maybe that is why you are a realtor and not an investor anymore.
i think you missunderstood the topic of the original post. anyways the only properties i would make a low ball offer on are the ones that are in foreclosure and are listed, because i know i can. im not going to go to some mcmansion owned by the president of some corporation and offer them half price for there house, but that shouldnt keep any savy investor from doing it.
maybe my view is "old fashioned" but i see most realtors as house wifes who think the job is a walk in the park, and just like to dress up nice and talk on the phone for a few hours and take the rest of the day off. no granted there are a few good realtors out there, but in my perspective not many.
good day.
[ Edited by ZinOrganization on Date 02/24/2005 ]
I think last I checked there were about 500k realtors in the nation. and what is your "experience" with them..10 maybe 20 realtors you have known? so I think you would agree with me that your "experience" is pretty useless. No, I didnt misunderstand the post. someone earlier said a realtor is just concerned about his 6-7 percent commission. that would imply that they think one realtor recieves 6-7 percent since his sentence was in the singular form. so I guess it is not common sense that a realtor does not recieve the full 6-7 percent. not to mention I talk with people all the time that think we get the full commission. and I dont remember anywhere in my post that said I wasnt a investor anymore. I still am, I just havent been doing it long enough to make it full time, but I will. and you are obviously ignorant about what an agent does, and thats ok, I was to before I became one. and our market is so competative that the foreclosures almost never go for the starting price. so come on over here and low ball some offers, we love a good laugh. good luck! it sounds like your doing great!
the origianl topic of this post was - "Is it necessary to deal with RE listing agents when making an offer on a property" before you got into your macho realtor garbo.
and the short answer is no, you dont have to.
you may know many homeowners who have never sold there house with a realtor and dont know that the realtor splits his commision with the buyers agent and broker, but for most actual investors it is common sense.
and you are being ignorant about what investors do, i could care less about what the odds are that a house will sell above the asking price, a good investor will put in his/her offer either way.
im sure you get annoyed by low offers and im sure you get a great kick out of it, but ultimitly its not your decision its the home owners. after all your supposedly working for them.
sounds like your a great realtor keep up the good work.[ Edited by ZinOrganization on Date 02/25/2005 ]
dlitedan,
Have you ever refuse to show an offer or ever suggested to a buyer not to offer a certain type of deal because you didnt agree with it? The house that made me originally post this topic I lost because the RE agent refuse to show the offer. It may not have been good to her but she isnt in the sellers situation!
I could have made a 29k profit of the deal if only it was another agent that knew more about what I was offering. The RE agent told me It would be a good ideal to offer more cash because the seller she represents has refuse offers of that nature before. The house was being sold for 34.5K its FMV was 73.3K I offered 44K for the property with 10K down and asking the seller for short term financing for 3 years. At the end of the 3rd year the balance would be paid in full. mostly all investors in my area are trying to talk the sellers down I went up on the price and still turn out and lost. Its ok thoughwe learn from our mistakes!!
No, I present all offers. I leave it up to my clients to decide if they want to take it or not. I may explain the deal so they better understand it, and I will give my opinion if they ask for it, but thats it. most clients can read an offer and figure out what the bottom line is. and thats all thats important to them, the bottom line. I dont defend all realtors because there are so many bad ones. infact, thats why I became one, I knew there was an oppurtunity to show people I am not a used car salesman just trying to close the deal. I give my clients educated information that they choose to use how they want. being an investor I may be able to explain a complicated offer rather than just say "oh this guy is trying to rip you off!" but keep in mind for every sleazy real estate agent there is a sleazy investor who tries to get what he wants at any expense. the problem is you really need to find a good realtor because if you want true access to everything that is out there then you need to get plugged into the mls. I had a house a long time ago I tried to sell fsbo and in 2 weeks didnt get any offers and 2 showings. I put it for sale by an agency and 30 people came to look and I had a full price offer in 3 weeks. It just goes to show you that although you and I are not afraid to buy without a realtor, the majority are. if you cant beat em, join em. good luck.
good response. yes it appears you are an ethical realtor, and work for your clients best interest. thats a good thing. you are right my view may be slightly tainted since im on the other side of the fence, but i do know a number of realtors and have friends who are realtors. so i do get to see what goes on and how unethical some people can be. these are nice people, but they put there interests ahead of there clients. and you are right there is just as many sleazy investors as realtors out there and i have had my fair share of incounters with them too.
I just hate to see the posters original question get lost in our bikering. anyways good day to you.
misshelen, thats a good point. my broker encourages us to contact the listing agent and meet with them and there sellers to present the offer. Most agents though are not very open to this, they think you will get in front of there sellers and embaress them or say something they dont like. I think presenting the offer directly to the seller and there agent is a lost form. it would be nice to see that again.