Termites Don't Eat Old Houses?
I had a termite guy inspect a house I was going to purchase recently for my primary residence. This house was built in the early 1900's. The house didn't have any termites and the guy even told me before he started the inspection that it was unlikely there would be any new damage. After he checked the house he said he noticed some really old damage which he expected but nothing new. He said that once a house got the age of this house you didn't have to worry about them anymore from a termite standpoint. Is this accurate? I do a lot of my own inspections before I buy rehabs since I don't use a lender for those.
I don't think that information is accurate. My family owns a a farmhouse that is several hundred years old. It was constructed with heart pine and many beams are larger than anything you can purchase today. About 10 years ago we had a termite company tent the entire house because the termites had eaten so much of it. Some of the doors were eaten up so much you could see sunlight glowing through the wood - they were paper-thin. I have heard that really hard woods are less desirable and older woods from virgin forests have much tighter grains than today's wood, making them less desirable to termites. But I guess when you are hungry and there is nothing else to eat, anything tastes good!
I would stick to the belief that wood, is wood. Old or new. If anything I would think those termites would look at old wood as we would a fine aged wine.
Cedar and redwood and old heart pine have more acid in the wood than todays pine and fur and less likely to be eaten or rot as fast. If exposed to weather it will eventually loose that natures treatment and start to slowly rot or get eaten by bugs more. Ever noticed old houses were built on cedar stumps 100 years ago and are still standing
Good LUCK and Thank You
Hope this helps some
Ted Jr
Bottome line is termites love wood and related products such as cellulose, celotex, mulch etc.
Yes there are certain types of woods that are more resistent to the dreaded creatures but the best thing is to use good sound building and draining principals.
I constantly preach about the need of homeowners and builders to do simple things to inhibit the liklihood of getting termites and other wood destroying insects in the first place.
When I inspect home often the first thing I notice is grading problems......which often results or add to moisture problems. The two go hand in hand.
Most termites have to have water within 24 hours..........which can usually be found crawl spaces and leaky faucets outside.
Crawl spaces are great and I love them but they should not be used for storage.
I have gone back and forth on moisture barriers in a crawl space....I now do it upon a case by case.
Here in parts of NC we can have areas of high humidity.......in a crawl space where ductwork is present there is often condensation forming during the summer that drips onto the plastic and sits there through out the summer.
Personally I wish crawl spaces would never require vents. Down here in the south vents are required..............but all you're really doing is introducing more moisture into your crawl space as well as creating a vaccum effect (stacking) that can cause other problems.
When I lived and built homes up north, basements in particular, you never would think of putting vents in the basement.........even unheated basements stay in the 50's through out the year.
The best way is to seal and control the tempature in a crawl space to alleviate enviromental and health issues.
Eventually the codes will change to reflect such but it will be many years before this happens.
In the mean time keep moisture away from the foundation of the house and get rid of those beds of mulch around the foundation.
Seek a reputable certified pest control agent to come out and inspect your home at least every 2 years.
Good luck
NC
One of my farms is an older area (1900-1940) and I have seen termite damage on every home I have inspected in this area. I know it will be there, just how much and is it active is the question. In FL, older homes get dry wood termites that are most common around the window areas. Look for little grains of sand like material. The grains could be any color, depending on the wood, and they might be in a small mound like an ant mount. Most important is damage to the subflooring and to the roof.
Brenda
I am certainly glad that here in Colorado we have no termite problems. Maybe they exist in some parts of the state, but I have never come accross any and it never comes up, it is not an issue.
The issue for us is expansive soils. Every house that you look at, one of the issues you always consider is the houses foundation and what effect if any expansive soils have had on it.
We have veins of bentonite clay here so on a street you could have some houses with massive structural issues and the next door neighbor has zero. Most of these issues are found the closer you are to the foot hills, heading east onto the plains the incidents are much lower.
What is your issue based on your geographic area?
I know that in Texas, mold is an issue, in the south termites are an issue.
NC-Yank,
I am assuming that you would put down plastic if you didn't vent the crawlspace? We had a house that had an unheated partial basement but the humidity was extremely high. It always smelled musty and we had a lot of cave crickets. I read that covering 80% of the surface area of a crawlspace would decrease the humidity dramatically so I tried it. I was amazed at how much drier it was. This house didn't have any vents. I think the possibility of radon and other soil gases might be a problem also if you didn't put down plastic but I'm not sure if the plastic would stop it. It sure saves a lot on the heating bills if you can shut the vents.
Crawl spaces are nice but can present various problems depending on what is in the crawl as well as what part of the country you live in.
First let me address the radon gas issue. ...........doesnt matter if you cover the crawl space with 50 - 100% of 6 mil plastic........unless that plastic is sealed tight, which I have yet to find one that is....then the gas is doing to escape.
Put vents into the equation along with other factors that will create stacking......or the house drawing air from the crawl space up.......well you are going to have problems.
While I do not get all excited with radon gas, every mold and smells you find in damp and dark places........it obviously effects some worse than others.
For those that are concerned with their personal residence then it is something that should be addressed.
There are only two ways that moisture is getting into a crawl space.........external (vents and foundation walls) and internal (water table or man made.....plumbing leaks, hvac condensation etc).
External means can usually be remedied by putting in a PROPER french drain and addressing any grading and gutter issues.
I will address closing up vents as part of the internal issue.
Obviously leaks from plumbing are addressed at the problem area.
Other problems such condensation dripping from duct work and high water tables can be remedied once and for all by completely sealing the crawl space with at least a 6mil or thicker plastic that is not only laid on the floor but goes all the way up the walls and sealed at all edges. Do the same thing around piers.
For those that have ductwork, check with a knowledgeable hvac contractor about controling the air in the crawl space itself. This will require dampers and returns as well, however you do not have to maintain the same temperture in the crawl as in your living space.
There are a few (very few)companies that do this type work or are familiar with it but as health issues continue to rise more and more will start offering methods such as the one I am describing.
Is this for everyone.......No........it may be just a matter of doing a few simple things such as a french drain or putting gutters on a home.
Let me also say when putting gutters on.......either the gutter contractor or you should add drain pipe at the end of the drain spout to get the water away from the house by at least 6 feet or more.....what ever is possible.
Hope this answers your question....
NC_Yank
[ Edited by NC_Yank on Date 01/11/2004 ]
You don't need to be too bright to be a termite inspector. After all, crawling around in a wet crawl spaces and blazing hot attics accompanied by insects, rodents, spider webs,and other little vermine isn't on the mensa list.
Remember, the "termite report" covers termites and other wood destroying insectts. I'v e see them in all ages of structures. More so in areas which have poor drainage or high water tables.
NC_Yank,says
Obviously leaks from plumbing are addressed at the problem area.
Other problems such condensation dripping from duct work and high water tables can be remedied once and for all by completely sealing the crawl space with at least a 6mil or thicker plastic that is not only laid on the floor but goes all the way up the walls and sealed at all edges.
NCYANK,
I have a question that it seems you might know the answer to
Have a rental house in Florida that had a leak or water blowing in some where in the attic, left water spots here and there scattered on the ceiling along the roof line of the vaulted ceiling and at one bedroom register there was a discoloration like rust along the edges of register
Had the ceilings repainted after roofer examined the roof and reapplied tar under some shingles although no definative leak anywhere. Also had new ac put in , air handler is in garage
Now a year later there are more scattered rust spots on the ceiling, maybe 5, no pattern. Also the rust marks and dampness has come back to the one register and the ceiling is peeling at that site
The ac people say it could be condensation on the pipes that go over the register but the on;y way to know if that is the case is to go into the attic when wettnes is noted and see if there are any drips.But if the air handler is not in the attic I don't think the condensation would be from that?
Any suggestions as what to do about it?
Thanks.
lyn
NC-Yank
Thanks for the excellent information. I'm not clear what you mean by the hvac you mention for crawlspaces. Are you referring to the system they use sometimes with permanent wood foundations were they simply blow the air into the crawlspace and then cut openings in the floor? It sounds like a neat idea but it seems like it might be more difficult to seal the crawlspace and insulate than to simply run ductwork. If you are instead referring to using hvac to condition the air in the crawlspace, it seems like you would need to maintain a very tight seal so you weren't drawing moisture from the ground.
Hi Lyn,
It's hard to evaluate leaks without being there and inspecting it thoroughly.
Condensation is nothing more than warm air hitting cold air.......thats it in a nutshell.
In the winter the duct work has warm air circulating thru it with cold air around the duct work......wham.....condensation, same thing in the summer.....cold air flowing in ductwork.....warm air outside ducktwork. Condensation on windows (even insulated windows) does the same thing because of this principle.
If you know anyone with a moisture meter (hardwood floor installers should have one) they could measure the drywall / plaster on the ceiling where your ductwork come down between rafter to get an ideal if this is the problem.
I dont see where you stated what type of roofing you have....but I assume from trying to patch the shingles with tar than it is probably fiberglass shingles.
Leaks can be real tricky to find but my experience is that a nail or staple is usually the culprit. Outside of that I have come across problems with Ridge vents as well as boots around pipes coming through the roof and of course flashing around chimneys.
If you are satisfied that those are resolved then it probably is the HVAC system. Cathedrals are nice however I find that few framers allow sufficient roof between the sheathing of the roof and the drywall itself.
Code typically required 9 1/2 - 9 1/2" minimum space between the roof and drywall sheathing. This should allow for a space or air pocket between insulation and the roof sheathing itself.
There are exceptions to this as is the case with cellulose insulation but I dont want to go into an engineering discussion over that issue. The air pocket is suppose to help the roof breath.....if the pocket does not exist than this could also account for any condensation forming on the ductwork......if in fact that is where the moisture is coming from.
You say there is no pattern but are the moisture confined to a linear area of where you registers (dampers) are or is it truly various spots on the ceiling without regard to where the register / dampers are?
Your air handler is irrelevent in regards to the condensation.
NC_Yank
Hi Dav,
Yes, in fact the crawl space is heated and cooled however not to the same temperature as the house.....just enough to keep it dry......low humidity in other words.
This does require getting a tight seal in the crawl.....which will also eliminate smells, mold, gases, moisture.... etc.
Is this method for everyone.....No.....but it will take care of serious problems that are resulting from having a damp crawl space.
In the next few weeks I will be submitting an article that deals with crawl spaces and go into creater detail about same.
NC_Yank
NC-Yank,
Thanks for the info, and I look forward to reading your article. My advice to anyone getting work done in a crawlspace is to let whoever is doing the work know that you will inspect it and then do so. From my experience, people seem to assume you would never crawl into a tight crawlspace to check the work so they cut corners which defeats what you are trying to accomplish. Fortunately, I don't mind tight crawlspaces, and I think you probably learn more about the condition of your building by crawling under it than anything else you could do.
Id say thats a load of hooey 3 years ago I doubled the size of my house 1 year ago I found termites.
Guess what they came in threw my new crawl space up the foundation and into the old part of the house. hav'nt touched the new part www.yet.Guess they had a preference on what part of my investment to eat first.
Munchingly
ED