Tenant/toilet Trouble
I AM IN NEED OF SOME HELP. I have two tenants that are repeatedly overflowing their toilets. Needledd to say, they both live on the top floor to everyone elses dismay in the building. I have been told by plumbers in the past that a toilet can not overflow unless it is clogged up from what is being flushed. Is this true?
The one man was doing it repeatedly about eight months ago. We hired a plumber on a sunday after his toilet was majorly clogged and he was not able to get there for about 6 hours, he snaked it out. The plumber told us to inform our tenant to add fiber to his diet or do a curtousey flush as his feces were hard as a rock still after sitting in water for that long. For eight months, we have had no toilet problems from this man.
Yesterday, after my husband and I returned home from work, we got a call from the tenant below him, water was coming down into his apartment. My husband took the shop vac to the top floor and handed it to the tenant, the man was extremely rude to my husband and told him that we had better get someone out here to clean out the stacks since that had to be our problem, he was not going to take any responsibility here. After this huge mess was all cleaned up, he told my husband to come into his apartment and showed him that about 50% of his electrical recepticals were hanging out of the wall and claiming they were like this when he moved in and that his ceiling has STILL been leaking after we replaced the roof about eight months ago. UGH! I hate stupid people!!! First of all, we would have never passed our building inspection if all of these receptacles were hanging out of the wall. Second, what kind of recourse do I have against people who after one problem gets accidentally brought to our attention, they all of a sudden have about ten problems to throw at us? He has already fried the persons tv and vcr below him because he put a small cooking pot under the ceiling leaking water from rain and left for work, never contacting us. If the tenant below had not called to scream at me saying that they had water pouring in, we would have never known it was even leaking. Since it was our roof leaking, we had to pay to replace her destroyed things, he wouldn't even though he was the one who was negligent. The overflowed toilet has caused the floor in the apt below him to warp, not to mention all of the feces sitting in the carpeting and walls. What can I do to him? Is there anything we can do?
The teenager that lives on the other side of the building keeps saying that the water just overflows in his toilet. Clean water just bubbles up and overflows. PUUULEEEZZZZ!!!! Funny thing is, he is the only one this has ever happened to. We used to live in that exact same apartment 3 years ago. We have never had our toilet overflow. Sure it may get clogged after taking a dump, but use a plunger!!!!! How hard is this for people to get???????????? Is everyone's tenants this stupid????????????? How can I get them to understand that this is their responsibility??????? Can I bill or deduct all repair charges from their deposit??????? Can I charge for clean up fees since we have to at least clean the apt below him, it is not these guys responsibility? What would be a reasonable charge in addition to damages? $50? It seems the only way I can get these people to act is to hit them in the pocketbook. These types of problems are what makes me hate being a landlord.
If anyone can help me on these matters, I would greatly appreciate it. You may e-mail me privately if you would prefer at **Please See My Profile**
Thanks!
Dawn
Only had to read the first few lines of your post to say that you better get rid of the tennant!!!!!!
That would be an easy solution but they have a lease that isn't up until 6/04. What can I do in the mean time and as for all the other questions?
Thanks,
Dawn
I would pay for his relo - money talks and Bullsh*t walks. Certainly you heard that one before. Hehe. Funny (not) story. Good luck!
C-
The answer may lay in the lease itself. Do you have any conditions in the lease regarding the tenant responsibility in damage and repairs(i.e. tenant pays the 1st $50.00 of any repairs or maintenance)?
Quote:
On 2004-01-09 12:17, morehouse wrote:
The answer may lay in the lease itself. Do you have any conditions in the lease regarding the tenant responsibility in damage and repairs(i.e. tenant pays the 1st $50.00 of any repairs or maintenance)?
Yes, that is almost the exact quote but what can that do for me? What if the damage is solely due to something they created such as this? The damage to the floor is well over $50, do I just have to eat the cost of repairs aside form the $50?
~Dawn
When you send the newbie to their apartment, send a brand new plunger with it. I 've had that in a couple of apartments I lived in...
Clint
I thought it was pretty logical to leave a plunger in the apartment after this happened the first time and I have done this. The man has a plunger right next to his toilet. Says he flushes and walks away.
Hopefully your lease agreement has clauses regarding trivial things such as clogged toilets, disposal repairs due to grinding bones, etc, clogged sinks, broken windows, etc. Ours states that these types of repairs are the tenants repsonsiblity and they will be responsible for paying for the repairs. I don't usually enforce this if they are an otherwise pleasant tenant. If they make a stink, I refer them to the addendum on their rental agreement that I printed off my state's apartment association website basically begging them to obtain renters insurance which covers things such as these.
Our rental agreement also states that we do not pay for damage for things such as leaking roofs or other acts of God. (also what renters insurance is for) Also re-read your lease agreement for a clause that states reasons the agreement may be broken...is there anything in it that you can construe as legally being able to break the lease? If not, offer him a few hundred bucks to take a hike. If that doesn't work, invite that plumber back to talk directly to the tenant about his fiber problem. TAKE NOTES AND PICTURES OF EVERYTHING
Next time you move in a tenant, take your camera with you and take "before" pictures of the unit...do it right in front of the new tenant. Then he can't say the receptacles were that way when he moved in. Than add some clauses to your lease that will prevent this from happening in the future.
I won't take sides, since I am currently an apartment dweller.
A few months ago, my bathtub filled up overnight. I could not take a shower or anything. I did call the maintenance who was able to snake it out.
Later on, at the next months rent paying party, I found out the people below me had done something, and some way it had affected my drainage.
So, for the kid that says his stuff overflows, don't just discount it, be sly and ask other tenant around him if they are having problems.
Just my two cents.
eric
This is only a 5 family apartment building. There are two bathrooms connected to each stack. One on the remaining one. The last time the kid said it overflowed, the apt below his was vacant. This was just last week. The day it happened, I got a call from my babysitter saying we had water everywhere, we are on the very bottom. All over my entertainment center, etc. The kid who was home at the time wouldn't look at me, only at the wall when he claimed that it just started overflowing. The following week when I went up to their apt after the dad denied any wrong doing, I could smell the stench in the carpet. Clean water my butt! The boy had not even told his father that he had come in contact with me that day or that he was given the shop vac to clean up his mess. This is the last thing I wanted all over my carpet, couch, running down my walls like a water fall and all over my ent. center. The son claimed there was not enough water on the floor in his apt to have caused as much damage as I stated. Does water not follow the laws of gravity, does it not flow downward? It did cause ceiling damage and we also ended up having to replace the entire kitchen floor vinyl tiles in the vacant apt. when it was not necessary before this happened. Water was just sitting under them. So, with all of this evidence, I am discounting the kids claim that he did nothing.
~Dawn
Oh, how exciting.
Sounds like the time has come to get rid of them.
If that's not possible, talk with an attorney. I would first have them look over the current leases and see if there is any room for wiggle to get them out. Granted the attorney will cost money right now, but it may be cheaper to pay him now than to wait a few months and see what more damage the tenants can do.
eric
Guess what! After looking through his file just now, I realized the one who flooded the toilet last night doesn't have a lease with us right now. I sent him one in early june for him to renew with a signature and return - he never sent it back. Can I evict him on these grounds alone? The fact that he has not had a lease with us since JUNE? The one I have is dated 6-30-03 as the last day of the term of lease. Please help!
Dawn
No lease = month to month by default. Evict him immediatly. If he asks a reason, tell him it's because he never returned his lease.
[addsig]
Dear Dawn,
You are faced with a problem which is rather standard in the smaller unit assembles. Let us begin at the forgive the expression, Bottom!
I climb upon the roof and examine the Vent Stacks, I stick a long rod down them and I flash my light. They must be clear. To achieve a proper "swirl" the water spinning around the inside of the pipe, there must be air from the Vent Stack.
I then check the other toilet fixtures that are hooked up to the waste line and make sure that they are all happy and non obstructed. I then take my plunger, a late model one shaped something like a Victorian Lady complete with bustle. I insert it carefully into the bowel of the toilet and I then begin a series of push and pull movements, designed to put pressure downwards then quickly release and create a pressure coming up toward me the plumber then in attendance. This action of plunge and pull is a very necessary function. Ask
any new bride.
I am ready now to insert the Toilet Auger, no it is not a snake. I insert it carefully
and manipulate it into the Weir and exerting a minimum of pressure I extend it downward and I turn the handle in a clockwise direction. Remember we are in the Northern Hemisphere. I continue the pressure until I am some six feet down the waste line proper and am at the outer reach of the Auger. I carefully retract it and bend over the toilet in order to more carefully monitor the withdrawal. I also at this moment expose my lower back with my droopy levy's also part of the plumber traditon.
As the Auger end breaks free of the Weir area I examine it to see what if anything is attached to the basket like Steel curled spring therein attached. Perhaps a white firecracker with the long fuse line. Perhaps a missing bandage from a major wound. Or indeed a nickel bag such as sold in the streets by furtive individuals busy in street dealing. You would be suprised at the great masses of objects. If all is clear we then address the next set of problems.
One of the larger problems in our present society is the practice of using too much paper in the cleaning action. This is asking for a stoppage and of course is very wastefull. I do not of course prescribe to the school that believes a finger should be extended and it surrounded with a few sheets of paper. I have seen this practice in France, but remember they have a backup in the Bidet. Also they have a problem, a belief that perfume will correct a bad sanitary disposition.
Now finaly to Tenant Correction. Most approaches to the toilet are made at speed. They have waited too long. If you hear a Threep, or a Trillblow, why start for the toilet. The practice of waiting for a full Thundersblast is too late. You will arrive too late and there is the danger of a Platch. A miss or a near miss. Both are inexcusable.
I explain this to the tenants. Yes both men and woman are offenders. I cannot tell you the floors and walls, yes even ceiling I have seen splattered by a frantic Platch. A Thundersblast has a lot of pressure and a range of throw about four feet. They are a force to be recon'd with.
If the tenants cannot be reasoned with or instructed then you must examine your lease and rental agreements and start your removal proceedings. The sooner the better.
I hope this has been helpfull to you all.
Lucius PhD, JD, and Master Plumber
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[ Edited by Lufos on Date 01/09/2004 ][ Edited by Lufos on Date 01/09/2004 ]
Dawn,
I think you are giving this tenant way too much grief. Their gripes sound like they could be quite legitimate. First off, the toilet. What you need to do is break down and buy one of the several types of toilets that are designed to eliminate this problem. There are pressure assist toilets and also the new ones made by Toto and American Standard that have a 3 inch trap that are almost guaranteed not to plug up. I think American Standard gives you a 10 year guarantee on this. They cost about $250 but your toilet problems are solved. There could also be a problem with the main line or vents that can only be conclusively determined by having someone snake a camera down the lines. If the main is backing up, one of the first symtoms is often a bubbling sound from the drains and sometimes clear water backing up into the tub. If someone is running water and it backs up, you will often see the relatively clear water back up into the tub.
The outlets are a legitimate gripe also. Obviously the outlets pulled loose when the tenant was trying to unplug something. This shows poor workmanship in the installation of the outlets and a potentially hazardous condition.
Finally, if you have a new roof and it leaks(again, not uncommon) you need to call the roofers back and have their insurance pay for the damage. All above board roofing companies are insured for situations just like this. Even though the tenant should have called, no one is perfect. He didn't just let it drip on the floor. He was probably in a hurry to get to work and thought the pan would hold what might happen to drip and then forgot to call. That's called being a human.
There was something else that I forgot to mention in defense of your tenants. Generally, a toilet should not be able to overflow even if it stops up. Of course, that is if they only flush one time. If they flush more than once and don't bother even watching the water level or shutting off the water or at least put down towels, you certainly do have a tenant www.problem.If the toilet overflows on a single flush there are one or two other problems with it besides being stopped up. There was at least one study done that I am aware of that showed that replacement flappers usually changed the amount of water and often drastically. Many toilets will flush almost three times the 1.6 gallon standard using some replacement flappers. Also, you should check to see whether or not you need to adjust the water fill height in the tank. This also controls the volume of water.
OK, well I guess I am standing corrected. Thank you guys very much for all of your helpful information. You have been very kind to share your wisdom and I am off to see if I can solve the problems.
~Dawn
Typically after the lease period the leases go month to month - if the tenant paid his rent on a monthly basis. (The landlord/tenant laws vary from state to state). You must give him 30 days notice. You do not evict unless he does not move out after the 30 days.
Brenda