Experienced Bidders/Toxic Property?
I attended my first tax deed sale in Tampa yesterday. I saw something there that left me very nonplussed.
A property went up for sale that consisted of a mobile home on land, with a well. There was also a mortgage, which I presume would have been wiped out by the sale.
For reasons that will be explained below, my guess was that bidders would stay away in droves.
Although the state's records showed a value of about $72k, with $41k for the mobile, $30k for the land, and presumably the well was a little over $1k. Since the values carried on the assessors books are about 80% of the market price, figure $90k.
The property sold for $65k in the most spirited bidding of the day.
Here's where I have questions ... this site could be viewed on a GIS map on the county's website ... and I cross referenced it with a Tampa Tribune online map of wells known to be contaminated by the Coronet Industries mess in Plant City. It seemed a fair match for an outlyiing contaminated well (boron in this case) that wasn't in the main cluster. If the well were unfit for drinking, the property would be condemned unless city water could be extended to it, leaving the owner with a mobile he would have to move, and a site with almost no value.
At the end of the day, my question is: Was I watching people who had done *less* homework than I had (simply bidding to a formula, provided they actually saw a mobile in good condition on the lot)? Or had they likely done *more* homework than I had, and determined that the problem was either negligible or remediable?
I know people have moved back into Love Canal, but really...
I think if you brought the subject up, people wouldn't have bid on it.
You really did your homework.
Quote:
On 2003-10-07 11:04, joel wrote:
I think if you brought the subject up, people wouldn't have bid on it.
You really did your homework.
Thanks for the kudos ... I just have the lingering feeling that I can't be as smart as I think I am.
Hard to imagine that *all* the guys I saw bidding (but the confident, expensively casual one in particular) were "shooting from the hip" on this one.
Is it really possible that what sounds like the majority of the people that bid, didn't do homework? Is it that common? I would be wondering the same thing.
I dont think it really matters. You've demonstrated what it takes to be successful - form a judgement based on your own research - pay attention to but dont be dominated by otuher peoples opinions. Regardless of the true facts in this situcatin - which are not really material and which are more trouble to find than they are worth - you did exactly the right thing.
You have done your home work. I am new here and know for a fact that I am going to the Oct. 12th meeting of Erin Brocovitch's boss Mr. Massery. I lived at the Coronet Plante for three years. Several mobile homes/wells have been sold. Ms. Brocovitch informned me that the environmentalists are going to have a field day with this one. The is one bucket of cancer I would not try to buy into. The cat has been out of the bag for several months and the land is TOXIC. I have been ill for 10 years because of drinking all those poisions and breathing all the fumes. I am in this huge lawsuit as we speak. The land and homes there may not be such a good investment. Although I am new to this, I would steer clear.
It was my understanding that there is a piped water source available to the site of the trailer/mobile home. It is true that the well is contaminated (boron) but is it not also true a simple filtering system can be installed if one wished to utilize the well water for more then gray water usage?
If the above items are true. Would it not be of interest to someone in the area to approach the winner of that auction. Be sure that they were aware of the contaminents there present and see given the above as true, buy the position for little if anything.
Lucius
Always do your homework and reasearch
Great Job
Tim
Flacorps you described a big part of what is wrong with tax sales. Lots of people are shooting from the hip so even if you do your homework all you are doing is avoiding losing money. That mobile could easily disappear even if it is considered real property in a quiet title suit victory and the land had no contamination problems leaving you with a lot worth anywhere from 25-50k. When a good property goes up they will all be over it even more so you will be outbid anyway no matter how much time you spend (and you obviously need more time as you assumed assessed value it 80% of market which is often way off from reality). Between newbies not quite aware of the risks and desperate long term players trying to place money or put the screws on new suckers the tax sales are pathetic investments these days in Florida. . Special thanks to John Beck, the internet and a speculative mania going on in housing these days in Florida and many other places..
Dear Investors,
Shooting from the hip has always been with us at almost any kind of an auction sale you can mention.
I have seen bidding at a foreclosure sale which completely ignored an in place subordination clause that had in effect moved the second mortgage on which all were bidding to a third position.
Indeed the buying of discount paper like 10 cents on the Dollar and then leave it as protection above the mortgage then in foreclosure and utilizing for coverage as you bid up and up and up and they followed you. Til you smile and step aside picking up your check for the amount of the overage bid. It goes on and on.
The tax sale I attended where the bid went to $5,000 plus and I then sold a copy of the properties true dimensions to the succesful bidder. a triangle 12 Inches by 14 Inches by 8 inches. It goes on and on.
I have always done full research on any sale I have attended. It has paid off and even today as we speak out here in LaLa land there are two groups syndicated buyers attending foreclosure sales with unlimited funds. One from Taiwan and the other from Israel. They fail in their research at least twice in every ten. I always try to buy into paper on those properties they have inspected prior to sale. Any discount I can obtain is paid off in full after sale.
My advise is continue your due diligence. Do your research on all documents involved in sale and always, always look at the property. You do not need to be an appraiser to arrive at value for property, this is something you pick up by doing and experience. I use the appraisers forms and I take the pictures and I tape any measurement that is necessary.
Cheers Lucius