Tax Lien Companies
Has anyone used any of the companies out there, which assist in buying Tax Liens? More specifically The Lennox Group. What have your experiences been and any comments and or recommendations would be appreciated. 
Not sure if I qualify....I am a client of The Lennox Group and yes, I can only speak highly of them.
Biriyia Newbie,
I'm also looking at The Lennox Group. Did you get any information about this company that you can share with me?
I don't think I will have the time to do the tax lien research. I am leaning towards signing up with the Lennox Group for the following reasons:
1) Lennox says they will do all the research and buy tax liens on my behalf. Tax lien purchases only from tax certificate states with reasonable redemption period.
2) Tax lien certificates will be sent directly to me by local courts, not to Lennox.
3) I get to keep 100% of all proceeds from tax lien redemption (principal + interest penalty).
4) According to Lennox, if lien is not redeemed within time period specified by local laws, the property will be transferred to my name free and clear (all other liens/mortgages nullified) since I own the tax lien certificate. Lennox will then proceed to hire a 3rd party to appraise the property and sell the property on my behalf. Lennox will keep 50% of the proceeds from the property sale and I get to keep the other 50%.
So from what I understand, Lennox will profit only from property sales. So they have an incentive to buy tax liens on high-value properties with high probabiliy of not being redeemed.
It sounds like a nice arrangement but I would like current and former Lennox customers to verify this through their experience. Thanks.
ONLY PROBLEM is that you have to have $50,000 to start with them. Otherwise, it would be something I'd look further in to.
I think if you talk to them, they will let you start with less .... That is only my guess. If you try them please let me know how it goes.
I am still a little hesitant to give up sooo much money with out knowing about significant about the company.
Biriyia
Is this Lennox fund a regulated invstmnt or is it private ? Does it have a audited track record ?
Dynamic I recieved the new client packet for cash accounts from lennox it looks good how long have you been with them? I agree with the other poster I dont have the time to due the necessary research and diligence necessary to invest in tax liens and 50 k is about how much I wanted to invest.
thanks
Cole
I had looked into investing with the Lennox Group a few months ago. Here is what I found out:
The Lennox Group charges an initial fee for research, and management of up to 14% if I'm not mistaken. Yes this is for three years of investing with them. On an investment of $50K, that's $7K. If you take an average of the states that they invest in, it's about 14%. (Arizona, 8% avg, Georgia, 20%, Alabama, 12%) And that is if the rate of return is not bid down to a lesser rate. The first year investing with the Lennox Group, your capital is working for them. Now I don't deny that a fee should be charged for work done as your agent, just how much and when it is charged. Second, the average rate of redemption is approx. 14 to 18 months, so to say that receiving a compounded rate every 6 months is optimal at best.
The chance of getting a property that goes to foreclosure with a $50K investment is unlikely. Let's say that the average lien is $3K, so you are probably getting 16 liens with your money. Now that's initial liens, in some states, you want to purchase the subsequent liens as well which will cost you $$. The average is that 95%+ of liens are redeemed, which is 1 out of 20 goes to foreclosure. Do the math. If you do get one gem, you split the profit 50/50 with Lennox. Again, they do act in managing the sale of the foreclosure. But who covers the litigation costs involved?
There are two ways of investing in Tax Liens, by yourself or through a company on your behalf. I do believe that investing through a company as a pool is much more efficient for your hard earned capital to work for you, and not you working for it. Management fees for research, due diligence is a cost involved. With that said, the company should be working for you, and the better they increase your rate of return they can share in the growth. Obviously, if they can get your return to the higher end of the scale around 18%+, they must be working for you. If your capital is pooled with other investors, the ability to decrease expenses compared to doing the legwork yourself is dramatic. And the probability of factoring liens going to foreclosure is increased for your dollar invested.
Before you invest, do the math.
I think that the TheNecktieKid has some valid points, this leads to the question...
If not Lennox Group whom then?
Pooling money is a great idea, thus reducing expenses and risk, but I have only found one company that does this and they have same issues I have with the Lennox group (ability to find reliable information, etc)
I live in CA a Tax Deed state and want to be involved in buying tax liens in other high interest states. (I.e. FL, etc)
Any suggestions? Or recommendations as always are greatly appreciated.
Regards
Sorry gang, I haven't looged on for a while (backlogged). I have been using the Lennox Group for more than a year. I liked their services so much and the way they educated me, that I decided to start my own educational company related to tax liens. I have no desire to pack on 200-400 contractors to do what those people do for Lennox, nor do I have the desire to have the legal backing, as does Lennox. However, I have found them to be ethical, honest, hard working and very diligent with my money. I can only speak highly of them and trust that they will continue doing a good job for me.
Their start-up fee is well worth the returns and the ease of mind it gives me. It beats me flying around all over the place and incurring expensive overhead cost.
Anyone who'd like to send me an e-mail for more info about Lennox, please do so at **Please See My Profile**
Dynamic,
I would like to contact you for more info o Lennox. I didn't find a way to do that on your profile. I'm a newbie so there's a good chance it's operator error.
Thanks,
Sure, **Please See My Profile**
Dynamic,
You have your profile contact information set to not display, even to other registered users (which is the default setting on this site). I would also like to contact you to discuss your experience with The Lennox Group, as I am planning to invest in tax liens, and they seem to offer the best services. Feel free to e-mail me (my address is visible in my profile), or please let me know when your e-mail address is visible in your profile.
Thank you - Aaron
Here are a few of my questions about Lennox:
-Do they handle/pay all of the litigation costs of acquiring the property if the lien is not paid?
-Will non-payment of a lien ever require me to come up with more money to buy out other lienholders before the property can be sold?
-What about IRS liens that are placed on a property after my lien is purchased? Do they handle that, or will I have to talk to the IRS?
Oops, I didn't know that I could put my profile on "hide." Sorry about that.
My e-mail is **Please See My Profile** Anyone can send me an e-mail regarding the Lennox Group.
Aaron, here are the answers to your questions:
Here are a few of my questions about Lennox:
-Do they handle/pay all of the litigation costs of acquiring the property if the lien is not paid?
Yes, they take care of the front and back end work!
-Will non-payment of a lien ever require me to come up with more money to buy out other lienholders before the property can be sold?
They don't buy liens in second or third positions unless they are able to buy out the first position lien. Again, they take care of that.
Some states might require some title searches and it's possible that there is a small charge that might come out of your pocket during the time of you holding the lien certificate.
-What about IRS liens that are placed on a property after my lien is purchased? Do they handle that, or will I have to talk to the IRS?
The Lennox Group does not invest in states where IRS liens, mortgages or other liens (except some small local weed liens for example) are put against the house that you potentially will own.
Remember, they make 50% of the profits AFTER you have a lien turning into a property. That's where they make their money, so it all works in their best interest to get clean titles etc.
Hope this helps.
taxlienagents offers similar service as Lennox:
The minimum investment is $2 K (with higher fee). It's not too bad for starter. And they allow you to put the investment on Roth IRA account so you gain can be tax free. However, it seems like you have to pay fees associated with selling the property.
What I like the most is the principal is payable to "COUNTY TREASURER FOR TAX LIENS". That way I don't have to worry the agent disappears with my money <IMG SRC="images/forum/smilies/icon_frown.gif">
Anybody knows if Lennox does the same?[ Edited by ew86 on Date 07/04/2003 ]
My suggestion is merely to invest in the great state of California where tax liens are very simple and hold position. I also suggest that you handle it yourself from purchase of list thru sale thus you become educated.
Best one I ever did was a four unit in Beverly Hills. Owner two ladies lived in one and kept the others vacant cause they hated tenants. As time went on they failed to pay the taxes and I of course did but the tax lien. I let it ride for many years and never bothered the ladies who lived san taxes. After 7 years and the death of one of the sisters I asserted my right. Nicely and informed the remaining sister that I was awarding her a life estate in the property. Free rent for life.
When she died and the life estate reverted to me. I sold the property. It was a mess but interesting you could go along Olympic Blvd with all those lovely units and then come to this one dirty unkept unpainted. Gave a sense of balence to the area. Big profit. Lucius
Lufos,
Unfortunately I don't have time to involve with the whole process.
Anybody knows about platinuminvestmentproperties? Their fee is better that Lennox. Any input?
ew86
Send me a private message with your email address about fees on agents.
Nick TLCNerd
Dynamic-
If you don't mind answering a few more questions, I think it will benefit everyone to have the answers here, rather than in private e-mail.
Can I ask how much you invested with Lennox? What has been your rate of return? Have you received any properties from the tax liens Lennox bought for you?
Thanks in advance-
I have been working with Lennox for the past week or so now. The program they offer appears solid to me and I will be investing with them. I can give specific information about the program but I dont want to be banned as it may be considered advertising. If one of the moderators can reply to this post saying go ahead, then I will.
I can say the following though:
- I cannot speak for Dynamic but I will say that I spoke to her about Lennox and about tlc's in general. She was quite informative, very helpful, and she is a very busy person.
- The program is not for everyone. It is really tailored for people who have a decent amount of seed money, say 50K and up.
- It is not a get rich quick program. It appears to me that the program works best if you allow Lennox to diversify your lien holdings by going to several states. Thus it may take a year until you have a nice diverse portfolio of liens from "friendly" states.
- It is really for people who ARE NOT doing this as a primary source of income. I work at a tech firm (though we may go belly up soon) have a few rentals, and am a small business owner. I simply dont have the time to go out and perform title searches, view properties, and go to auctions. While I think tlcs or acquiring property through auctions is a great way to make money, I also think it requires time and effort. I am willing to pay someone for the research, AND split profits on sales if I can get a solid annual return.
- While I would love to get rich quick, if I can get rich slow then I will be happy..."you cant always get what you want but sometimes you get what you need"... The program does allow me to use my IRA for the tlc investments which is also nice. The returns will be stashed away from the taxman until I am in a low bracket.
- There are alot of programs out there that are good. There are places like Lennox and there are others who have been mentioned in this forum. There are also tlc funds that are much like mutual and bond funds. These funds pool investors money and buy lots of tlcs. The tlcs are not placed in your name. These funds give you a gauranteed rate of return on the order of 8%. The bad news is that these funds cap your return. That is, you get nada for the properties that go to sale. However, 8% these days is pretty nice in my book.
Make sure the organization you use is part of the NTLA. None of these organizations are backed by the government; there is no FDIC insuring your investment.
Hope this has helped. If the moderators let me, I can give details about the Lennox program.
Adam
Tax lien info in TN
****Must Reach Freshman Investor status before posting URL's***
Click on tax sale
"For the tax sale service center click here."
"View list of properties available for tax sale"
Tax Sale field enter 0004
View properties to be sold to highest bidder on 7/30.
I live in this TN county and will bird dog if interesed.
Madewa
Adam,
Thank you for the encouragement. It was nice talking with you too.
Everyone else, please do your research on Tax Lien Agents. While they take less money, going with them comes at a cost. There is a great article where TLA was mentioned: please visit: ****Must Reach Senior Investor status before posting URL's*** and type in "Ameridreaming" to find the article.
Happy Reading.
Yes, it is a good deal to use a tax lien company. With all the leg work involved, most people are more than willing to pay the fees. Just like how they pay commissions to their stockbroker.
No muss, no fuss.
$2,000 gets you started with us.
Our free and clear deed to new owner [you?] is a whopping 30%!
We handle ALL aspects of the business. Real estate agents, lawyers the works.
Read the fine print and see for yourself.
In the last 6 months, just one client rolled $100,000 from his IRA and purchased 76 tax liens. Of those, 21 were redeemed within 90days. Average return on these 21 is 18%.
Same person invests another $56,000 and purchases 31 liens. 23 redeemed within 90 days at a average 16% return.
Same person again invest another $99,800 and purchases 48 liens.
24 redeemed within 90 days average 30% return.
This goes on all the time folks.
It's time everyone looked at a tax lien company.
[addsig]
Ask Franklin,
I know you're TLA, or at least a marketing arm for TLA.
I guess the website got blocked out. The article is still called Ameridreaming and you can find it on the Forbes website. Should give you some insights on TLA. Sorry guys, wouldn't give them $5 of my own retirement account. Have too many unhappy people calling about them.
Quote:
On 2003-07-29 18:55, Taxlienbroker wrote:
Yes, it is a good deal to use a tax lien company. With all the leg work involved, most people are more than willing to pay the fees. Just like how they pay commissions to their stockbroker.
No muss, no fuss.
$2,000 gets you started with us.
Our free and clear deed to new owner [you?] is a whopping 30%!
We handle ALL aspects of the business. Real estate agents, lawyers the works.
Read the fine print and see for yourself.
In the last 6 months, just one client rolled $100,000 from his IRA and purchased 76 tax liens. Of those, 21 were redeemed within 90days. Average return on these 21 is 18%.
Same person invests another $56,000 and purchases 31 liens. 23 redeemed within 90 days at a average 16% return.
Same person again invest another $99,800 and purchases 48 liens.
24 redeemed within 90 days average 30% return.
This goes on all the time folks.
It's time everyone looked at a tax lien company.
The returns you are mentioning, are they the interest earned from holding the liens? What happens to the others that are not redeemed? Are they 'free and clear' and are properties now owned by you? I'm very new to tax liens so excuse the novice questions. TIA for your reply.[ Edited by Leo_Investor on Date 08/01/2003 ]
Quote:
On 2003-08-01 13:34, Dynamic wrote:
Ask Franklin,
I know you're TLA, or at least a marketing arm for TLA.
I guess the website got blocked out. The article is still called Ameridreaming and you can find it on the Forbes website. Should give you some insights on TLA. Sorry guys, wouldn't give them $5 of my own retirement account. Have too many unhappy people calling about them.
Askfranklin is the marketing arm.
The website www.askfranklin is not
down. I wish you the best of luck.
All, I have actually talked with Zack Harrison from The Lennox Group and he told me that your initial investment can be about $25000. But, he informed me that the chances of you acquiring property with that little an investment are very low.
It says on the website that about 5-10% of the liens result in properties for the investor. That's really their ultimate goal. Lennox seems to be reputable and have a satisfactory record with the bbb. My only problem is that you need $50,000 or more to make significant money with them, which is a <B>lot</B> to risk. Plus, their fee of 13% is also high. In your first year with them (as part of the 3-year contract), you'll break even or come out slightly ahead. In your second and third year is when you really make money.
I'm still trying to look into other companies and compare them. Can anybody recommend any other TLA companies besides The Lennox Group?
Thanks.
There are a few attorneys here and there that do similar work but they do it more on behalf of their clients rather than in the spectrum that Lennox does.
Whatever you do, I highly recommend you stay away from TLA (Tax Lien Agents). Make sure if you do choose to go with them because of their low initial investment, that you do your research and find the articles that have been written about them. And if you'd like to talk to some clients that are calling me now complaining, please send an e-mail. The research needs to be done and it needs to be done fully - or you end up with a ditch and a piece of liability.
I might be a little biased, but when a company treats me professionally and keeps their promises and I see it in my wallet, then I gladly recommend them. And the reverse is true also. So please be careful.
I buy tax liens every year; the interest has been a good investment for me. I have been wondering lately about the feasibility of a small group (perhaps 4 or 5 individuals) who actively purchase liens in their own state forming a partnership and sharing in the returns and expenses equally. Has anyone here done this? I realize an arrangement like this has its downside but if it were set up carefully and ethically; it could increase your returns...
Any ideas?
Mike in Louisiana
I'll be calling two major, very reputable firms this week to see what their program is all about, but they both operate as funds rather than agents. Deposits are held in trust and they produce an average yield of about 12% or more from what I can see. They probably have high minimum deposit requirements, but that's fine for me. I'll report back what I find.
I've looked at TaxLienAgents and Lennox, but these two don't compare to the scale of the firms I'll be calling. Once I know more about them, I'll report their names and how they work.
Try Landmark Capital Group. They offer basically the same deal and the Lennox Group's, but the deal is on better terms for the beginner investor: less money required to start with (20 to 30 K), lower fees, electronic due dilligence and lots of free info from the company.
Their strategy is slightly different from the Lennox: they diversify client's moneys w/in the portfolio in such way that average rate of return 16% is reasonably offset by good chances of at least one lot being not redeemed). However, as far as I know, this happens only on the second year. The first year, Landmark is just "beefing up" client's portfolio. On the second year, that is when the fun starts!
Sorry can't post either URL or 800 number or their address, talk to Howard
Good Luck!
Anybody have contact info for "Landmark Capital Group" (can't find them on the internet) or any other Tax lien companies? If so, can you send it to me?
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All, I talked with Landmark Capital Group. They seem pretty good. Their initial investment, plus the fees as well as the contract period is a lot lower than Lennox. Their research fee is lower than Lennox or TLA, plus your money is supposedly insured. I'm going to check them out.
Can anyone else recommend any other companies?
Dynamic, what do you think of Landmark Capital Group? What other companies can your recommend besides Lennox (their initial investment is too high) and why?
See the posting on securities fraud. A number of the companies that are using an "agent" system are in trouble.