Instead Of One House I Suddenly Own 2!
Last week I wrote this on the legal forum:
" I bought a property Sub-2. Got the Deed, had it recorded.
While cleaning up trash on property, neighbor comes out and says he owns the only driveway to both properties.
I get the plat and will have the property surveyed to make sure that what the legal description says is my property really is my property.
I went to the Public Records today and looked up the records (again) on my property and also the neighbor's.
Found out the following:
1989: land on which both properties sit is deeded to A + B (A is neighbor, son of B), joint tenancy warranty deed.
1991: B deeds property that says E 370 feet, etc to A
1994: A + B deed a part that is N of all that property to C.
1998: A deeds property that says E 370 feet, etc to B
1999: A + his wife deed his property to himself only
1998: corrected joint tenancy deed in which A deeds E 370 feet, etc to B
2002: A gets a mortgage for $ 10,000.00 and uses property that says E 370 feet, etc as security.
The property that says E 370 feet, etc has been deeded to me in Sub-2 transaction.
Mortgage never showed up in the title search, I only discovered it because of the dispute over the land and property lines.
What are the implications and what should I do, legally? "
The following is the result of the surveyor's research and work:
I do own not only the house I bought Subject to, but also the seller's son's house!, it is built on my property. The part of the land he owns has no dwelling whatsovere on it!
Now, to make everything water tight, the surveyor and I requested the abstract and will have an opinion by the lawyer at the abstracts office, which will be binding the way it was explained to me at the abstracts office.
Next, my lawyer will write a letter to the seller's son to please vacate the premises by such and such a date, because the land "his" house is built on is not his', thus the building is not his'.
The mortgage he got on the property that I now own is in the son's name and the property securing that loan is not his', so the mortgage does not affect me and that bank will have to deal only with the seller's son. It is immaterial to me.
The surveyor said it is the most interesting case, and he did all this for free to help me out, although he didn't expect it to turn out this way. The independent 3rd party is the abstract office and their lawyer, this makes it water tight for me.
Now, what do y'all think about this turn in events?
Ladybug
Definetly one of those "Once In A Lifetime" Investor stories!
Hope it all works out!
All the best!
That's why I love this business...never a dull moment.
Great job
John (LV)
Very interesting turn of events. As you have stated, it does sound like you own two properties. You mentioned that you acquired this property sub-to. If "A" decides to make waves, as I am sure B didn't intend to sell his son's house("A"
, are you prepared when the bank decides to accelerate the mortage?
I would like to hear how this one turns out. Good Luck,
Matt
Thank you for your replies!
It shows that, sometimes, things turn out way different from what one initially thought to have. Yes, never a dull moment. Although I really wish I could have just sold that property and get on with the next ones.
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Which mortgage are you referring to? the $ 10,000.00 one on A's house or the one on B's house?
If A makes waves, the $ 10,000.00 one is of no concern to me, it is to A though.
The mortgage on B's house: if necessary I will refinance.
Ladybug[ Edited by Ladybug on Date 11/10/2003 ]
LadyBug,
I would check with your attorney about the loan on the son's house. If he doesn't really own it, then how can he encumber the property? The son's loan may not be a problem.
Tom
We have to wait about two weeks to get the abstract updated and the official lawyer's opinion.
Today I spoke with my own brand new RE lawyer (husband of a former DA at the Court House) he finds it an interesting situation, though he too advises to wait these two weeks. He said that the RE lawyer doing the opinion is the very best RE lawyer there is in this State! he also said that he is "quite crass" meaning he says what he means and means what he says; that sounds just like my kind of guy!
My brand new RE lawyer will look over my paperwork (finally!!) and thinks that Sub-2 is a very smart idea to do RE!!
I'll be seeing him next week. He doesn't want to charge me either, he said, because I'm a friend of his wife's!
My, oh my, I got myself a whole bunch of freebees without asking, just being offered to me!
Now, the way I learned when I grew up is that it is better to owe money than to owe a favor. Nevertheless, I will be owing him a favor, maybe some free translations, which I would be happy to do.
Ladybug
Today I was supposed to receive the abstract and the Official RE Attorney's Title Opinion!
I went to the Abstract and Guaranty Office where I requested all that: they didn't have it!
Why not? "Because we could not find the abstract" Can you believe that?
Q: Why couldn't you find the abstract?
A: We called R County's Abstract and they don't have it.
Q: Who else did you call? (There are about 4-5 abstract companies here in the county)
A: Nobody else
Q: Why not?
A: Don't know
Q: Why didn't you call me to tell me you couldn't find the abstract?
A: I don't have your phone number
Q: Did you look on this form (me pointing on the request form) and you didn't see my cell phone?
A: Oh, I hadn't noticed!
Q: Do you realize that I lost 15 precious, valuable days waiting for you to get me that abstract and lawyer's opinion?
A: No
Q: So, why didn't you call the surveyor?
A: We usually wait for the customer to show up.
Q: Do you realize that you are screwing up?
A: No
Order: Cancel my request.
A: Don;t you want us to build a new abstract?
NO, NO. Cancel
I go to my daughter's store, call the R County's Abstract Office: Yes, we have that abstract.
I go there and request the abstract to be updated and the lawyer's opinion - will be ready in 7 - 10 business days.
I go back to the first Abstract office:
Q: Do you know that I found the abstract with one phone call?
A: Oh, where did you find it?
Me: At the R County's Abstract office
They: That cannot be, they don't have it, we called twice. Do you want us to renew your request?
Me: NO, I already requested it at R County's Office.
They: Why?
I left........
So there we go, wait another 7 - 10 business days! I will have to make another mortgage payment, there goes an unnecessary expense because of some really dumb and stupid people; although I really should not gripe, I will have the other house for "free".
I will keep y'all posted!
Ladybug[ Edited by Ladybug on Date 11/25/2003 ]
This would be iffy. There is an easement(can't remember the name of it off the top of my head) that basically states that if you use another persons property openly, without concealment, for a certain # of years, and the actual owner never does anything, the son in this case can technically take title to the property he was using.
Ladybug - Just exactly what type of translating do you do? I thought I remembered you making mention of translating in another post. I'm curious because I have friends in Chile, and have spent time there and in Peru, so it always perks up my ears when someone and I have that kind of mutual interest. My Spanish sucks, but my Engish is pretty good! Anyway, I know that has absolutely nothing to do with your post, but I was curious. But, as far as your post is concerned, I'm curious about something else. If you do, in fact, legally own this other house, are you really going to take possesion, or will you deed it back to the previous owner? I'm not sure what to think here, I mean, it's great that you might get another house, but if the seller never intended to sell his sons house...geez, I know you might be right technically, but will you be able to sleep at night? With all of that gobledygook trasfering this and that all over the place, it's not surprising that someone, somewhere, and at sometime mixed things up a bit. Again, it's good for you, but somehow just doesn't seem right. I think the intentions of the seller should play a part in your decision, but maybe I'm a wuss. Is it possible that you and the son could make some sort of compromise? Not that you would have to, but it just doesn't seem right. I guess if I didn't like him, I might give him the boot too, haha. Does anyone agree with what I've said? Whatever you do, good luck. Zach[ Edited by Zach on Date 11/25/2003 ]
Zach,
First, yes, I do speak Spanish fluently (it is my "native" language, although I am from Dutch parents). If you need any help with translating, pm me, I'd be happy to help you out!
Second - yes, the second house is on my mind too. The son is a very unpleasant person, but that does not mean that I have to be unpleasant too!
Before I make any decision though, I want to know what my legal position is. That is the main reason I am getting the abstract and lawyer's opinion. Based on the outcome of that I will decide what to do.
The son would not hesitate, as he has shown me already, to deny me or my buyers access to "my" house. That was the main issue - the driveway.
I am not a callous person, so I will work out something with my attorney that will be satisfactory.
Now, the sellers (and the son) have not been particularly helpful: the sellers did not pay their mortgage payment for the last month they were staying in the house, left me litterally tons of trash, they had the propane gas co. take the propane tank (because it was just rented).
The son does not have an automatic right to anything because of years on the property, that goes in after 25 years here in OK, and he hasn't been there that long.
I quite understand that they themselves screwed things up going back and forth, and allow for their misinterpreting, if that is the case.
Anyway, we'll just have to wait for the official verdict, and take it from there.
Ladybug
Thank you for the offer! I've been reconsidering my response to your post, and I was thinking that if my neighbor tried to tell me I couldn't use my driveway, I'd be pretty ticked off too. And if he was a jerk, I might just go ahead and try to get the property out of spite, haha. I'm looking forward to learning what happens with this. Thanks again for your offer to help with the translating - Zach
While I was on my way to Arkansas today, my cell phone rang! It was the R County Abstract, telling me that they were starting today on the update of my abstract to get it done asap. (I had told them about losing 15 valuable days with the other office) Also, they asked me if I would take care of the invoice for an updated abstract for the same property, made in 2001 for my sellers; they left the bill unpaid, when they got their new mortgage in 2001. The bill is for $ 245.00, I said that I would take care of it, I need that abstract done and the RE attorney's opinion to get to sell the house and know what to do with the other house!
I do know that after all this I will ask my attorney to write a letter to my sellers to request a refund for the $245.00 for their abstract in 2001 and also for the last month's mortgage payment , when they were still occupying the house, that I made to keep the mortgage current.
It is like these people left some bills unpaid, thinking that because I took over responsibility for the payments after they deeded me the house, I should pay for everything, and they can do what they please. This won't work with me, I treat people fair, I like people to treat me fair.
Ladybug
Zach, thanks for your post, and the offer will stay open for whenever you need it!
Today I got the abstract! It took R County Abstract only 5 business days! instead of the 7-10.
I already posted this also on another topic.
Just wanted to keep y'all informed.
I paid the $ 245.00 that the seller's owed for their update of the abstract when they refinanced in 2001 + $ 215.00 for my update = $ 460.00 more in expenses, because these people screwed up.
But....
It shows clearly on the abstract that I DO own the 2 houses.
The abstract contains all the paperwork that I had obtained at the public records, including the $10,000.00 mortgage the son placed on "my" property!
Next week I am meeting my attorney to discuss our move re the son's house.
Tomorrow I will place an ad in the paper that will appear next Tuesday, to sell the house I originally acquired. I need to get it sold, I need the money, this house has cost me way more than I can afford, though it was necessary to pay all the expenses, especially the mortgage payment and the insurance to keep all current, and to honor my word.
Ladybug[ Edited by Ladybug on Date 12/04/2003 ]
Sorry to resurrect this dinosaur of a thread over idle curiosity, but this is a truly riveting story. How did this turn out?