Storage Laws?
Section 8 tenant's lease expired yesterday. She is transferring to another state. The electricity was cut off 3 weeks ago for nonpayment. The family hasn't been there in weeks. Everything is still in the house along with a houseful of bugs. No one knows how to find her.
How long do I have to legally store her property?
Check with your local laws but usually it is 30 days
Well, that ole Code de Napoleon is kinda strange so I'd be afraid to give you much advice. Outside Louisana I'd say that if you could argue that the property was abandoned then you could clean it up immediately. If the stuff has any value I'd put it in storage someplace for as much as 6 months or more-- the argument with an angry ex tenant isn't worth it.. Take pictures to document the condition of the property.
Thank you for the reply's. I do need to clarify that the property is in southern Indiana.
Hey,
I will tell you what I do when tenants leave their stuff behind...
It all goes in the dumpster and I say the house was empty when I opened the door.
BBC -
What county is it in? While I'm sure the laws are pretty much the same from county to county, the enforcement of the laws can differ significantly.
Interesting place to do out of town landlording...
-Jeff
jb,
The property is in Floyd Ct. Also have property in Clark. All my real estate investing is in Southern Indiana. My husband is from there and my stepson lives there so we commute. 738 mile commute.
Haven't been able to find the same type of deals in New Orleans plus I am scared of the mold and foundation problems here. They are rampant. I need to get over it though because I'm sure there is plenty of opps in New Orleans too.
Bruce,
I love the dumpster idea. Every got in real trouble over that?????
Hey,
How could I get in trouble??? I told you the houses are always empty! Nudge, nudge...wink, wink.
Well, Bruce, generally I agree with your advice but on this one I've got a problem.
So if the property was empty when you got there then do you return the tenant's Security Deposit?
And, assuming that an ex-tenant wanted to make a stink and got some hotshot from Emory Law School's Atlanta Legal Aid Society, how long do you think it would take to punch holes in your "it was empty when I got there story?" A mess on the order of BBC's abandonment case is going to require a dumpster. You suppose I could find a neighbor who saw the dumpster there, the guy you hired to throw things into it and a scavenger company with records of delivery and pickup? Besides no judge is going to believe that story.
The key issue is whether the tenant has left the premises without any intention to return and claim the remaining possessions (abandonment) or whether the tenant is still in possession of the premises. The key line in BBC's original post is:
Quote:Everything is still in the house
If "everything" includes easily carried items of value (either commercial or personal, such as pictures, documents, etc.) then it is likely that a judge is going to rule that you should have realized that the premises were not abandoned and you should have followed the proceedure for regaining possession of the premises (eviction). "Self Help" evictions are frowned upon by judges to the point that they sometimes put people in jail.
Even in the states that allow landlords to remove possessions from abandoned properties without a court order there is frequently a law that they must store such possessions for some period of time and that the tenant must pay the costs of such storage if and when the tenant ever wants the stuff back.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=in&navby=year&year=2000novemberinapp
contains a link to Robinson v. Valladares in which the Indiana court of appeals affirms the lower court decision that the landlord (Valladares) must re-imburse the tenant (Robinson) for the value of the goods removed from Robinson's apartment after the expiration of the lease without a court order of possession. The specifics there are somewhat different in that Valladares had locked Robinson out and disposed of the possessions immediately after the end of the lease period. However, I wouldn't count on that as a defense.
BBC's only defense here (if she goes forward without a court order) is that the things left behind were either so few (i.e. it looked to her like the tenant had moved and left the place trashed) or of so little value that she concluded that the tenant had moved out of the property and did not intend to return for the remaining stuff. Whether that holds up will depend on a numbe of factors,
1) does the tenant come back and make a fight.
2) does the tenant have the resources to either get an attny or get a pro-bono tenant advocacy group to litigate on her behalf
3) the luck of the draw when it comes to which judge they get
4) the specifics of the case.
most of the time such matters go quietly into the night on either point #1 or point #2.
But "it was empty when I got there" is not going to cut it and is likely to get you a contempt of court citation if you try it.
Hey Commercial,
I agree with you 100%. There is NO legal basis for throwing everything away and an incredibly sharp tenant could tack my hide to the wall.
In the first post, I originally had written "You can choose to follow my advice or not...", but then I deleted it thinking it sounded a bit pompous and could have confused a reader. But I wanted to imply that my advice was not on the correct side of the law and I should have included something to indicate that fact.
BBC -
If you feel lucky sometime, try Washington County. Sherriff's dept out there seems to be a little more "here's your stuff, now leave" than other places from what I've heard. Best of luck on this one.
-Jeff
I really appreciate the input. Commercialking thanks for taking the time to write what you did because I always want to know what is correct. Doesn't mean I always do it but I do like to know.
I left a little part of the story out because I have a tendency to be wordy. Because the electricity had been cut off the sump pump in the basement couldn't work last week during a bad storm. Caused the basement to flood along with her washer and dryer and our furnance and hot water heater. This happened two days before her lease expired. There was evidence that people were looking for her because there was a note left in the house (unlocked back door) that said I want my !@##$%%^ money so it is possible she was running from someone. Everything was left in the house along with a million or more roaches. It was the most disgusting thing we have seen in our short landlord career. We changed the locks and put the furniture in the garage and everything else in garage bags. It took 40 large compactor bags for everything in the house. If she comes in the next few days and takes the stuff that is okay. The bug man is coming tomorrow and it will probably take several trips to kill the bugs. Also she was a Section 8 tenant and had transferred her Section 8 to kentucky so we knew she was leaving.
I'm sure a good lawyer can get us on this, but in this situation we are taking our chances. Again everyone thank you for the input.
BBCProperties,
Think about updating your lease. Talk with your attorney about drafting an Abandoned Property clause for your lease which addresses this specific situation and which complies with your landlord/tenant law.
Here is the language I use in my MD leases to get you started:
Any personal property which is left on the Premises after the termination of the Lease or the expiration of the term of this Lease or after Tenant has vacated the Premises shall be deemed to be abandoned by Tenant or other owner and shall, at Landlord/Agent's option, become Landlord/Agent's property and Landlord/Agent may dispose of such personal property without liability to Tenant or other owner, at the expense of Tenant, as additional rent. Landlord/Agent shall not be liable to Tenant or any other owner of such abandoned personal property.
Thank you for the input. I like what you wrote and will incorporate in our leases.
Thanks,
Betsy
You can put it in your lease if you want but it will not actually cover your ass very well. The proceedure for such things is established in the law and you cannot agree to something which is in violation of the law. I see these kinds of provisions all the time (tenant waives service of notice in the event of default seems to be the most common). Bottom line-- they don't work.
What tends to work is that there isn't enough money in it to sue over. But if they do manage to sue you are going to be a stone looser.
The term of art which the Lawyers use is Contrary to Public Policy. The state has enacted an eviction statue so that landlord/tenant relations will be handled fairly and uniformly. Your agreement in contradiction to that statute is void.