Sewer Treatment Plant
I am looking for someone who can educate me on the various types and costs of sewer treatment plants for a 45-50 home sub-division.
After doing some sample test digs, it looks like the land (at leaast currently. Recent snow melt and such), we will need to look for alternative to septics.
My limited knowledge on this subject has resulted in me reaching out to my fellow TCI members.
I think the requirement is determined on the number of bedrooms and it looks like we may need two such plants for this develoment.
I already had in my budget $5,000 per septic, so 45 X $5000 affords me the capital to look into treatment plants( I am told around $160K). Besides the actual plant, what other cost will I need to budget for?
Sewer Piping, Drains? maitenance for the plant, etc, etc.
I am also told that we may be able to double the size of our development due to the 1/2 acre requirement with sewer plant versus 1 acre for septics? If so, adding 5-10 more homes would certainly cover the cost? Right?
Appreciate any input.
This may be a question best answered by civil engineers who design STP's. Also, I would expect that the approval of the STP would be within the jurisdiction of the NY state environmental agency. In PA, STP's must undergo design approval by the Dept of Environmental Protection. I thought the sizing was based on bathrooms, not bedrooms, since it is related to GPD. Another issue is whether the facility must ultimately be dedicated to the municipality and what is the extent to which the developer must provide for or can collect for providing connections for other properties, thus making it worthwhile to "upsize" the facility.
Where is your nearest connection for sewer? Do you have a creek or river nearby? When you build a sewer plant you have to get approval of your state environmental agency and the U.S. EPA. For a 45-50 house development the cost will probably be prohibitive. You will have to have a certified operator to run the plant. In Alabama in areas where normal septic will not work we use a mound system. This entails bringing in an engineered dirt using a mixture of clay and sand.
Thanks Nancy. Always good to hear from you.
I thought using bathrooms would be the requirement, but my engineer say's badrooms?? He is currently doing one for a 260 bedroom development and they require two WTP for this size.
I am told that the city looks favorable to WTP, so i need to do some further due diligence w/r/t this need.
The closest sewer line is 2-3 miles away, so hooking up to existing service is cost prohibited. Remember, I have 100 acres of wetlands to spill out to. Of course this needs to be approved, but feel that it propably will not present any problems? Time will tell.
The WTP does not need to be manned 24x7. Actually, you contract with a service to maintain the system and deed the cost into each lot.
At least this is what I am told. I will post once I know further.
Thanks again.
What you are referring to is called a pump or lift station. A WTP is the large collection pool, where the sewage is treated and returned to the envronment. If there is sewer 2-3 miles away, you will most likely have to run a force main from your pump station to that point. The subdivision will be gravity to the pump -then force main to existing lines. This is the usual in most areas anyway.
flyboy,
I would be very interested in learning what you find out on the points you mentioned. (Would also love to know why # of bedrooms is relevant as opposed to # bathrooms. ) If you wind up going the STP route instead of running a collector line & force main to tie into existing trunk line, I would also be interested in knowing cost feasibility for 50 units. That's why I thought if you can sell connections to other properties, maybe that could subsidize the cost.
I know for a fact that I will not be required to run a trunk line to the closest sewer line. Why, because we have our weekend home less than 1/2 mile from the property in question and when we built this home, we needed to install a septic.
Funny as this may be. Our home is on a lake and the leach field is within 10 feet of the lake????
Nancy,
I am not sure why they use bedrooms, but after surfing arond the net, I see most all municipalities utilize this formula...100 gph per person based on two people per bedroom? Therfore, a five bedroom home would need to disperse 1000gph...5 bedrooms x 2 people x100= 1000.
I certainly will keep you posted on my findings. I tried to locate some info on smaller (sub-division) treatment facilities, but I can not seem to locate such info as yet? My engineer advised me that the Town of Lloyd, NY is installing such a system and he wants to take me there to see the system.
I will also consider (if approved) an aerobic system. My neighbor on the lake recently installed such a system in his new home.
My excavator believes we may still be able to use septics. His reasoning is that the ground is saturated with snow and within a month or so, the land would dry out enough to get decent perks.
Boy, there are so many option and everyone has a sollution, but we will not know till we get closer to approval which sollution will actually work <IMG SRC="images/forum/smilies/icon_confused.gif"> [ Edited by flyboy on Date 03/12/2004 ]
flyboy,
Thanks for your info. Guess it does make sense to "count people" (go by # of bedrooms) rather than number of bathrooms. After all, if only one occupant in the house....
Good luck with getting the puzzle pieces together, and I look forward to hearing about your progress. Hope you don't have to do the aerobic route (we call that "spray irrigation" here).
I am looking into this for one of my developments.. There was a great deal of info at the home building show on this topic.
I was VERY pleased to discover a low pressure, small diameter system for 100 homes. Each home has a lift station/grinder (in my case) The lift station goes to a small diameter line to a treatment plant that we put underground. The treated water is put into leach fields that can even be in medians. The entire systmen will take only one building lot and will be invisible to the public. By the way, this development is on a 100 acre lake.
When I pushed for a budget number I finally fot $5000 to $7000 per home - for the FULL system. When the force main finally comes near, we can pull the plant and tie in.
Septic would cost more in my area.
Gregg
By the way - each lift station is tied to the home owners phone line and has a 90 gallon take to take up the slack in case of power outage. The phone line is for a direct dial up to a service contractor in case of shut down. The systme will auto dial through the normal phone line.
I plan on charging each builder or home a $7000 hook up fee. I will put in the plant.
Gregg
Gfous,
Can you share a manufacturers name??? I can not seem to locate one or find any info on this type of system.
My development will consist of 55-65 homes at best. All being 4-5 bedrooms.
Thanks, Flyboy
Flyboy, Gfous seems to have an appropriate answer. Like the alarm system. But if this is your answer I suggest you lay the whole problem off on some engineering firm who are currently working in your area of the world and are in with the Building Department and are accepted by them.
This type of improvement has to answer the present time problem and then be ready to convert when some sewer line comes within distance, or the County decides to expand an existing facility to induce more construction so that the tax base can go up and that helps pay for the expansion of system.
Your description of the land around would make me think of mounding as a solution. But I lay these kind of problems off on the specialist. Tough enough just building. Right now I am trying to work out gray water system, holding tanks, pump ups and possibility of having to put an electronic burner on each waste line. I have not got a clue except lots of nerdy engineers are gathering to the party, I think they smell money. At least they no longer wear pocket protectors and have little slip sticks hanging out. God that used to be intimidating.
Ok flyboy, check six. Lucius
.
Lufos is right. Essential that you use local engineers to accomplish.
Some of the manufacturers have engineering firms that have done this before. we fond a few with experiecne right here in Cape Coral, Florida.
[addsig]
Lufos/ Gregg,
I do have an engineering firm working with me. In fact, it was his idea to install WTP after we opened up some holes on the property.
I am just the kinda guy who likes to educate myself rather than being told, this is the way it should be".
Can ANYONE offer a manufacturer? Or do the engineers plot it out and then go down to the local hardware store and buy all piceses? Surley there must be some info on the NET out there for smaller WTP.
Thanks guys.
Flyboy,Your engineers know who to get the equipment from to build the WTP. No they will not just go to the hardware store and pick up the pieces! Your engineers will be able to give you a better estimate of cost after the environmental impact studies are completed and the health department approves a plan.
Flyboy-
I will get you a few manufacturers names on Monday. I have them at the office, not home. PM me with your email address please. www.investinwaterfront.com
Gregg
_________________
Gregg Fous
Investor/Developer
"Under-promise and over-deliver"[ Edited by GFous on Date 03/13/2004 ]
Gregg...you wrote...
I will get you a few manufacturers names on Monday. I have them at the office, not home. PM me with your email address please. www.investinwaterfront.com
Gregg
I sent you a pm with my e-mail. Please forward when you get the chance.
Thanks, flyboy
See:
http://www.buildersshow.com/cgi-bin/myshow03
for a list of manufacurers.
Gregg
Who's better than you Gregg
Thanks!
The link did not show too well. Here it is on target.
http://www.buildersshow.com/cgi-bin/myshow03?subcategory=295&category=55
I have not has time to reserach who I talked to here in Cape Coral ( the local reps fror one of the companies on the link above.) When I dig it out I will let you know.
Gregg[ Edited by GFous on Date 03/16/2004 ]
Here is an excellent resource I found on the NET. This is a federal funded program managed by the University of W. Virginia dealing with all aspects of Waste water and sewer treatment.
There is a wonderful catalog of all sorts of informational data available for a nominal fee.
They also have on site engineers available to answer any questions or concerns one may have pertaining to waste water and such.
http://www.nesc.wvu.edu/nsfc/nsfc_index.htm
[ Edited by flyboy on Date 03/16/2004 ]
[ Edited by flyboy on Date 03/16/2004 ]
[ Edited by flyboy on Date 03/16/2004 ][ Edited by flyboy on Date 03/16/2004 ]