Section 8 - Again
I have my third property - this one is a multi-unit.
the current tenant receives Section 8 with a 3 bedroom voucher. She has one child and herself. She says she has other children that are involved in custody issues at this time. there is also a bedroom set up that is clearly for an adult. she says her brother stays there sometimes when he works late.
when renting my other property I had several young girls come in with section 8 vouchers and I KNOW the boyfriends would have moved in. I'm guessing Section 8 didn't know or approve of the boy friends living there.
my question, if Section 8 finds out the tenants are violating the rules (by moving in a boyfriend with a job or by perhaps renting a room to someone else) will they be removed from the program? if so, Iam I out the rent until they can be evicted? what is a landlord's duty to Section 8 to report what they don't think is right?
I guess what I really want to know is how much must I police a tenant's living arrangements if they are on Section 8?
It could be a problem, if they lose the voucher, you will need to evict. ***Hopefully*** section 8 will be nice enough to give a 30 day warning on time. In some large urban areas they will send the notice 30 days late, therefore you will have to evict right away., putting your balance sheet at risk.
** However, more than likely Section 8 will never know unless someone reports it. Section 8 inspectors can not make the opinion of what is an adult room and what is not.
** Just cover yourself in the lease agreement by stating that only Tenant, person A, person B may reside on premise.
Section 8 tenants are by and large going to break the rules. I know I'm going to offend some people here, but I have yet to have a Section 8 tenant without a bum live-in boyfriend. He usually is the father of one of the children and mainly just sits around and complains a lot. Most of my section 8 people run cash businesses on the side.
You can "report" them to the Section 8 office but you better have tons of proof. I wouldn't be suprised if they tried to sue you too. People will fight to stay on the gravy train. Also realize that reporting them to Section 8 will effectively kill your contract, and the Section 8 office might not send you more people.
Section 8 will never find out about the boyfriends because they don't care either. Honestly, if you want to concern yourself with section 8's rules you should apply there so they can properly pay you for it. Unless they are breaking the law (which you report to the police), you should worry about it, it's not your problem.
[addsig]
I'm in the process of leasing up my first deal (3-Flat in Chicago's infamous Englewood neighborhood) so I'm keeping an eye out for tenants with extra folks that wouldn't been on the voucher.
An associate of mine who's dealt with the situation before, says upfront that he tells the potential tenant that he charges $150 per extra adult that isn't on the voucher. I know the Housing Authority wouldn't sign off on that, but what would the tenant do? Not pay it, risk getting turned in and lose their voucher. It's not a Win-Win situation for them, but when they're attempting to break the rules, what can they expect. Do you really expect to make an extra buck fifty off them, under the table? Some do, I'd just hope to discourage them from doing it and prevent the extra wear and tear on my place and the extra headache from un-authorized tenants.
The first call I got for my place was from a older lady who wanted the 3-bed 2-bath apt (I do have a 4bd 2 bath in the same unit) for her family of 7 :-o . Four Adults ages 52, 48, 26, 25 and 3 kids 1, 3, & 8. Obviously one of the adult pair was trying to hitch a ride on the others train of gelatinous brown meat flavored fluid. :-D Needless to say, I didn't follow through with that call.
Good luck,
jbwill
Legally, taking money on the side is basically defrauding the government and if the tenants were smart, they'd sue you and get you kicked off the section 8 landlord list.
Ethically, I don't think that them breaking the rules is justification for you breaking the rules.
[addsig]
Hey,
Savvy has already said it, but the idea of getting $150 "under the table" is a bad idea on a totally new scale of bad ideas.
You are committing a federal crime (read that as possible felony), while the tenant is questionably committing a violation of Section 8 rules. You would be giving the tenant a HUGE amount of leverage against you.
Stupid...Stupid...Stupid
everyone is right on this issue of money under the table. the "gov." may spank the tenants hands for additional forks in the apt. but they will fry your a$$ for housing faud....km
Don't expect to see my mug on crime stoppers. What I was mentioning as a possible practice is not my own. Although it's an option, not the best on, but it's an option. How you choose to run your business, is your business. And notice I did say $150 under the table and hand to hand, good luck catching a business person worth his salt on that one. No receipt, no proof, no case.
If someone was taking money on a Sect. 8 lease for a 4 bedroom but it's actually a 3 bedroom. I'm not judge Wapner (sp?), but yes you could take them to court for fraud. You're being paid for something that you ARE NOT providing, the tenant would be witness, but not party to the lawsuit. Taking additional funds from a tenant to let them have an additional tenant stay there, I agree helps them commit fraud against Sect. 8, and you would get your hand slapped or even black balled by your local Sect. 8 program, but sued for fraud, or stuck with a felony, I think not. I have a two car garage that I rent out and it's not included in the rent. If the Sect. 8 tenant wants to pay for it outside of the lease is that fraud too?
Yes, I agree it's wrong to do anything under the table, and Yes Savvy's correct two wrongs don't make a right. And because of those things, I have no intentions of doing it. But I don't think it's a felony. It's bad but not that bad.
jbwill
I'm pretty sure they can get kicked out of the program for allowing other people to live there and I wouldn't count on any Sect 8 money after they are kicked off.
I don't usually pay too much attention unless they're causing me problems. I have enough other things to take care of.
They're probably already in violation because I think you need more than just 1 adult and 1 child to qualify for a 3 bdrm. Who else did she put on the voucher and is it legit?
I wanted my section 8 tenant out so I called the housing authority and "asked" if it was OK for the tenant's boyfriend to live in the unit. I said the tenant said it was authorized but since I hadn't seen anything in writing I wasn't sure. The housing authority immediately sent a letter of termination of assistance to the tenant citing an unauthorized occupant in the unit . In my case, housing assistance stopped immediately and the tenant was either to move by the end of the month or would have owed me the full amount due on the first out of her own pocket.
The tenant however asked for an emergency hearing on the subject and at that hearing told the housing authority that the boyfriend was really a "live-in caregiver" and the housing authority bought that and reversed their decision.
Where I'm from - Section 8 does AT LEAST one inspection per year, sometimes 2 or 3. When they see a setup like this - they will question them and check up on them regulary. Too many people try to get on this program when they have an income that would not allow them to qualify for the program. Section 8 is a good program, but like many other programs - there will always be those who try to take advantage.
Good Luck!
[addsig]
The tenants are warned well in advance of the inspection. The landlord is usually there too. So there is plenty of time to "hide" anything they are doing.
[addsig]