Robyn Thompson & David Lindahl Teleconference
I tuned into the teleconference Tuesday evening, and gleaned a few tidbits of helpful information.
I was curious what other listeners thought.
I was only able to listen for an hour, so had to cut away early. I was hoping the objectives quoted would be covered, but either I missed a lot of them, or they weren't addressed.
Robyn Thompson and David Lindahl will teach you:
-15 easy ways to get Free Advertising
-the one technique to double your classified response
-how to use the radio to increase your response
-the 5 ways to make sure your mail gets opened
-how to double your marketing response for less
-how to choose the right answering system
-how to get a credibility kit for prospects
telemarketing scripts that screen out unmotivated sellers
-how to handle seller objections
-how to put your systems on auto-pilot
-how to get real-estate agents in your area in your back pocket so they call you before they list their properties
-how to build relationships with REO agents so that you get to preview and bid on bank REO's before they hit the market.
What did the rest of you think of this teleconference??
I found that it was very hard to hear during the question period. The number of techniques that were supposed to be covered were addressed - mainly with "it will be covered in our camp in November". All in all - I was very dissapponted. The most helpful thing I learned was to use blue ink when addressing envelopes.
He He He Robyn strikes again.
Hey,
Come on guys...what did you really expect?????
We have all been around long enough to know what a "free seminar" will cover.
I'm not surprised that it was bait to get everyone hyped to pay $$$ to attend a bootcamp. However, I still expect people to do what they say they are going to do. It is disappointing that it was advertised they "will teach.....", but failed to do so.
They did not obtain their stated objectives. Perhaps they obtained their unstated objectives.
Hey Bruce, isn't it amazing that the real estate investing market has been so successful at convincing everyone in it to not expect a guru to keep any promises they make to the point where now somebody who expects a guru to actually deliver what they promise is looked upon as the idiot?
boy rehabinator, you nailed it. it is so true what you say.
what is even more sad is that more REIAs just jump on the bandwagon and hire these gurus to travel aroudn the country and sell books and tapes to thier newbies too, instead of nurturing the REIA as the last great bastion of LOCAL, state-specific knowledge on real estate investing left, unless you are lucky enough to stumble across an investor who is honest and will mentor you, if you are a student and ready to be mentored and work hard.
Of course these more traditional REIAs probably offer their own courses, which is fine, but when you start opening up to the gurus, I think it dilutes the quality of the meetings. Just another forum to sell books and tapes to.
John Micheal:
I understand your point and have no problem paying for knowledg/information. In fact I have many times in the past. However, this teleconference did not discuss hardly any if the concepts that it said it would. I listened to a foreclosure teleconference last month which was extremely well organized and discussed every single point that was promised. Then he pushed his books and tapes at the end for about 30 min. I was much more willing to listen then because I felt like I got something from the teleconference and wanted to hear more.
That was NOT the case with this one. No offense to the moderators but it was VERY disappointing....
Results
It sounds like the problem was in the teleconference ad. It certainly gave the impression that those topics would be covered in the teleconference. They should have been reserved for your bootcamp ad.
It really makes it look like a bait and switch tactic...
Here's a question to ponder:
Are investors cheap or are "gurus" greedy???
I thought it was helpful and enjoyed the presentation. I totally expect the sales pitch to be geared toward their up-coming boot camp, so I was not disappointed.
We took some notes, got a few ideas and basically, if you get a "few good ideas" out of a free teleconference then it was probably worth it.
I'll admit, it did make me want to consider attending the seminar.
Thank You Mr. Pringle:
I am glad you received a lot of ideas on it and enjoyed it. Next time we are going to have two different dates and pre-screen questions from people before the call and answer them on the call without all the backgroumd noise and 500 people trying to get in their questions all at the same time.
Thanks Again!
Jeff Adam
_________________
"Capture Motivated Sellers Automatically"[ Edited by JeffreyAdam on Date 11/12/2004 ]
JohnMichael, I find it slightly disturbing that you actually consider yourself a guru. It is one thing to be supremely confident in what you know and your ability to teach those skills, but to actually identify yourself as a guru...well it just seems a little silly.
Nobody is a guru, It's a term not fit for REI, or anywhere else, because it implies separation from the student, and when you stop being a student of life as a skilled professional or practitioner, you're in trouble, because your ego has taken over and there is no humility...
Davehays,
You said: I find it slightly disturbing that you actually consider yourself a guru. It is one thing to be supremely confident in what you know and your ability to teach those skills, but to actually identify yourself as a guru...well it just seems a little silly.
You said: Nobody is a guru, It's a term not fit for REI, or anywhere else, because it implies separation from the student, and when you stop being a student of life as a skilled professional or practitioner, you're in trouble, because your ego has taken over and there is no humility
Well the Definition of Guru is: Any greatly respected and influential leader or adviser.
Thesaurus: mentor, teacher, instructor, master, authority, sage, éminence grise, Svengali.
Now let me see, I have been teaching, mentoring and coaching students in the art of real estate investing for years.
I have purchased 100's properties throughout the United States.
Over the past 20 years of buying and selling real estate I have made 4 bad deals and that was my first couple of years out.
I have done the training/seminar stuff under Robert G. Allen, Jim Banks, John Beck, Bob Bruss, Peter Conti, Claude Diamond, Bill J. Gatten, Bill Bronchick, Global Resource, Robert Kiyosaki, Ron LeGrand, Carleton Sheets, Success Magazine, Ted Thomas, and RussWhitney. (Just to name a few)
Larry Holder - A private real estate investor who allowed me to be his apprentice for 2 years. I stopped buying real estate during this time and simply became this mans shadow he allowed to listen to his calls, travel the country with him during his real estate transactions. I had the pleasure in dealing with his real estate purchases, sales, 1031's, tax certificate and tax deed purchases, hud purchases, REO purchases, foreclosure sale purchases, pre foreclosure purchases, commercial purchases and the list goes on.
I teach inner city teenagers who are in trouble the art of real estate investing in an effort to show them a way out.
I have literally read 100's of real estate investing books over the years!
I have bought and sold, single-family homes, trailer parks, rental units, commercial property and the list goes on.
I mentor, teach, & instruct 100's of real estate investors every year.
I am well respected with my students and influence their success as an investor.
Guess what that makes me a Guru! And I am vary proud to be one.
I am vary self-assured and a great success in my own right.
Next time before you attempt to discredit another, make sure you know the facts!
You have taken a simple word like "Guru" and made it ugly without even know it's term!
As for your statement: when you stop being a student of life as a skilled professional or practitioner, you're in trouble, because your ego has taken over and there is no humility.
I have never stopped being a student of life and have learned along time ago that ego produced nothing but self assuredness produces success and most mix the two because lack of understanding.
[addsig]
Jeff Adam,
)
No problem just being realistic about my expectations.
By the way it's Ms. not Mr. !!!
Take care
I agree with davehays. Unfortunately, "guru" is another one of those terms that the REI "industry" has misused and distorted the true meaning of.
. It was his fellow countrymen who called him that. Perhaps they did because Gandhi said things like:
Mohandas Gandhi didn't walk around India calling himself "Mahatma" ("great soul"
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom."
"Those who know how to think need no teachers."
"I have nothing new to teach the world."
If somebody called me a real estate guru I would smack him. I use it as a back-handed compliment.
Rehabinator:
I agree with the spirit of what you said here, but feel a need
to pick nits about your language.Quote: Hey Bruce, isn't it amazing that the real estate investing market has been so successful at convincing everyone in it to not expect a guru to keep any promises they make to the point where now somebody who expects a guru to actually deliver what they promise is looked upon as the idiot? Its not the real estate investing market that has done this it is the real estate guru market that has done it. So many people have been out hyping their seminar for so long that everybody expects the bait and switch. This is one of the reasons that so many start-up investors take grief from friends and family, the legitimate investor has been swamped by the "oh you took one of those seminars and believed it" perception.
The thing is that the "gurus" are not for the most part in the real estate business anymore. They are in the entertainment business. What most of them sell is dreams.
In contrast look at John Michael's "mentor" Quote:Larry Holder - A private real estate investor who allowed me to be his apprentice for 2 years. I stopped buying real estate during this time and simply became this mans shadow he allowed to listen to his calls, travel the country with him during his real estate transactions. Here's a guy who's making his money doing deals, not giving seminars. I have no idea what Holder charged John for this two year apprenticeship but I'll bet you it was a lot less than these "gurus" charge for their weekend boot camp.
I too teach classes in real estate. The school I work through charges fifty bucks. I'd waive the fifty bucks if I found somebody who looked like they were motivated and energetic. I try to work with my "students" to do deals with them. I make nothing unless they make money in real estate. My whole goal is to make the students into partners. I'm not saying that that is a morally superior position or anything but it is one I am more comfortable with.
Kudos to those of you, whether you call yourself a guru or not, that are more concerned with actually teaching and nurtuting your fellow investors, than in making money off of them.
Quote:Its not the real estate investing market that has done this it is the real estate guru market that has done it. So many people have been out hyping their seminar for so long that everybody expects the bait and switch.
The thing is that the "gurus" are not for the most part in the real estate business anymore. They are in the entertainment business. What most of them sell is dreams.
My hat is off to you, you said it much better than I did! I agree totally.
Quote: I'd waive the fifty bucks if I found somebody who looked like they were motivated and energetic.
You're made of the right stuff in my book.
Quote:I'm not saying that that is a morally superior position or anything but it is one I am more comfortable with.
Hey, no need to sugar coat it, you are in a morally and I'll add ethically superior mindset than the normal guru. Most of these punks are just money grubbing clowns who are only interested in maximizing their wallets by honing their newbie advantage taking powers. So many of these clowns have learned that there is more money to be made parting fools from their money by selling them all the same copy of a gold mine map, then using the gold mine map themselves to go find and dig up that gold. It is totally fueled by the gurus propigation of the misguided notion that "Sure not everybody will do what it takes to make it, but YOU MR. NEWBIE, YOU ARE DIFFERENT FROM THE REST OF THE CATTLE IN THIS ROOM!", when you combine that with a newbies desparation and the American ideal that somebody can come to America with a penny in his pocket and become a millionaire it is a money making machine just waiting for the less than scrupulous to start turning the crank. I have been to my share of these seminars and it just disgusts me to look around at the people that sit glossy eyed getting their egos stroked by the gurus. These are the people who couldn't make a dollar if I started them off by giving them 4 quarters. They have no business being in business for themselves, yet the gurus are more than happy to market to these exact people and pick their pockets.
It must be very disturbing for newbies that get into this business to be overwhelmed everyone proclaiming to be a 'Guru'. They have no idea of where to start...
What I have found out in the last 1-2 years is that a large majority of these people who proclaim to be guru's have only done a handful of deals. When I speak to them in person or on the phone, it is evident they are not what they say they are.
I know that Robyn Thompson and David Lindahl are the real deal. This is one reason they were endorsed by TCI and we had this teleconference.
Next time somebody on this site proclaims to be a guru on this site, ask them for a list of the last 30 transactions they did with property addresses. It is very easy to do a "Chain of Title" with the title company to find out if they are legit. I think you will find out they are not. It is sad but true.
This site is an excellent resource to come and get free information from the likes of: John "Cash" Locke, Nancy Chadwick, Rehabinator, ShortSalesPro, to name of few. People should be grateful for having this information at their disposal. Again, I wish there was a site like this when I first started. My hats off to these individuals who come to this site and give out the information that they do.
Best Riches,
Jeff Adam
[addsig]
On reflection I gotta say that I suspect that how you feel about guru's in general may be a function of how you got started in the business. Those of us who got our starts in the school of hard knocks have a tendency to be suspicious of the gurus. Those who got started by buying one of these courses tend to feel better about them.
The hands-on education guys tend to poo-poo the guru courses because they have an incredibly high failure rate (something like 95% of the people who take the course will never buy any real estate other than their house). But we forget that the hard knocks method has a high drop-out rate as well. You only remember your collegues who stay in the business but when you really think about it you've met a lot of people over the years who are not in this business any more.
Now I read Robert Allen's books back in the 80's and found them very helpful at the time. And I tend to read (or at least look over) all the guru manuals I see. I think the better ones have two characteristics
1) They concentrate on the generals rather than a specific technique. I see lots of people out there floundering because they only know a step-by-step approach to foreclosures (for example) and that approach doesn't work particularly well in their market and their "training" doesn't give them the tools to improvise. Education is better than training-- it gives you the ability to think for yourself. Most of the guru courses I see do not even attempt to do this. In fact they postively discourage thought ("follow this script exactly", for example). This is a bad thing.
2) They don't have a lot of hype. Real estate is an excellent way to make a lot of money. But if you think a few hours a day is going to replace your day job and buy you into the Bill Gates circle you are smoking some of that funny tobacco. The occasional great deal does come along but most of the time its day to day slogging it out in the trenches that makes you rich.
A long time ago I was watching an anti-gentrification protest in Chicago. The huddled masses were gathered in the central corridor of the county building chanting and singing in support of some ordinance that they thought would stop yuppies from moving into their neighborhood. Leaning up against a collumn watching was a fellow I knew to be a big developer who had showed up for the same county board meeting to lobby for the other side of the same ordinance. I walked up to him and asked, "So what do you think of all this noise, Harry?" And Harry said, "Oh this is no big deal. We have fought this fight on every block of every street from North Avenue north (About 4 miles and 150,000 people from the current scene of conflict). And in the end we always win. And the reason is because we get up every morning and go to work. Sooner or later this riff-raff will take a day off and sleep in and that is the day that I'm gonna bury them."
Now the point of the story in the present context is that you make your money in real estate by that "getting up and going to work every day" mentality. Good deals and bad, good years and bad the professional slogs through doing the mundane, improvising new solutions, learning and working and eventually that pays off.
Not many courses talk about that side of the business. The better ones do.
One of the things that many people seem to need in order to work this business is encouragement. All their life they have worked for somebody else who told them what to do with their days. Now they have the freedom to decide for themselves. That Hype seems to help some of them get motivated. Others live in the dream-- that is they continue to believe that if they only take one more course, only learn about one more technique then magicly great riches will fall into their lap. The worst of the guru's encourage that delusion instead of telling them that the way to wealth is work.
Now I didn't tune into the teleconference (I was at an investor meeting actually trying to put some deals together) but I am told that Thompson and Lyndahl are very good educators and motivators. When I saw the notice I thought that it was way too many topics for a 2 hour presentation. You must remember that this is a relatively new experiment for TCI and that we are trying to find things that the community will find helpful. Along those lines communication with Joel with recomendations would be greatly appreciated.
What makes the real estate business both challenging and interesting is that there are rarely simple, "stock" answers or solutions. Those who try to portray it in a spoon-fed, script-like manner do so to increase sales of courses, books and tapes.
Many years ago, a third-generation builder (who stood about 5 ft tall) told me that when he'd started in the business, he was 6' 3". I was new in the business at the time so I didn't fully appreciate what he was saying.
There is no magic wand. Skill comes with hard work, a commitment to learn and trial and error. When I teach, I teach why's as well as how's. People have to learn to think for themselves -- to understand how to apply and modify principles to different types of situations -- not just to parrot what somebody else says or does.
All, (especially newbies)
I am a newbie and I was on the teleconference call. I have been doing deals for about a year. David and Robyn did very well at discussing new idea's, ie: they covered how to negotiate with sellers while at their house, and David went so far as to discuss his mailing campaign. Robyn went over how building relationships with REO agents is so important and even told everyone how to wholesale an REO property by using a land trust. Is college free...no, Are trade schools free...no. I have spent THOUSANDS on REI info. and it helps me close deals. I have paid back my training as well with the profits on the deals I have done. This business requires training, period. I unfortunately cannot make this bootcamp but plan to attend a future one. I wish TCI would do more of these conference calls, it was very helpful.
I am very critical of "gurus." I understand that they are trying to sell a product, and if it will make or save me money, I'm all ears. I get offended when they try to use the hype on me, though, rather than throwing a few freebies as an indication of the value in their product. I have a simple BS test I use. First, don't show me checks. That may motivate someone without a clue about this business, but as someone who has actually collected a number of those checks, I understand that you have NO CLUE what the NET PROFIT is by the number on that check. They had expenses, right??? Why don't they mention that to the drooling newbies? Second, don't throw up a slide as an example of how great your material is, and then yank it away so that nobody can take a note. Be willing to give a little if you want peoples' business.
That said, Robyn (and Dave) is one of the best I have found at this. No BS, no checks, nuggets you can use. Based on that I went to her boot camp awhile back. Tons of value, GREAT networking, and I came back fired up and got back to work. I can personally attest to Robyn saving me from making a well over $100K mistake, and her advice has saved me or made me money numerous other times. Robyn never reels you in to sell you on the next step. Yes, she has other opportunities, but each opportunity is a complete package, not a step to the next seminar.
Now, I didn't hear this conference, but have heard her many other times, and there is always some pieces you can use. She won't train you for free, she shouldn't have to, and she is always a great value. But she won't waste your time on a commercial without giving you something first.
I also can say that I just got back from this marketing boot camp, and it was fantastic. Robyn was great, Dave was great, Vena was great, Mark Sumpter (who I'd never heard of before) was great. The event was worth every penny of my $1000 and then some. I learned tons that we are going to be implementing, and if they read this, THANKS GUYS!! The only part which was worth sitting outside enjoying the weather was Kris Kirschner. He is probably second to Russ Whitney (that's probably unfair, as Kris actually gives you something if you buy his product) at being able to talk for hours without saying anything of value, and boy does he have a lot of meaningless checks to flash! (That said, Kris' materials are actually OK, it's his appearances that should be avoided - cash flow and systems are really good topics to cover.)
All that said, you need to be willing to pay for your education. Stop stepping over dollars to pick up dimes. Just be smart and do your due diligence... and search out the advice of others. And don't bother if you can't act! I met a guy at one seminar that had purchased 14 seminars/boot camps (including some good ones), but had never bought a house!! The speakers can't make you a successful businessperson (no matter what they say), they can only give you the tools. Same deal with traditional education, some go on from college to make it big in business, some serve me my coffee every morning. Don't blame the educator.