Many times it comes down to the lender / underwriter.
I just went through this mess......while the government did not have any set requirements as long as the tank was not a certain size / volume......the lender did have personal policy issues which I had to deal with.
Some times you can just ensure the tank is empty then fill it full of sand and be done.
The catch 22 is when you do have an oil tank in the ground, the lender / underwriter makes you dig it up and in the process there is oil on the ground.
Some of these tanks are very old.
Then you can be looking at serious cost of clean up.
I was fortunate but the soil engineer that I had to have on the job said about 50% of the jobs he does, there is soil contamination which means bringing in more government agencies.
If you are afraid of this happening then tell the buyer to find another lender.
Agree with NC_Yank.
We just sold a house in Cary NC with an oil tank under the back yard. It had not been used for many years, and had (a mix of oil and water?) in it, which might indicate it was leaking. We were anticipating negotiation or remediation, but there was not a peep from the buyer or his lender, so it quite luckily sailed right through. Anecdotally, we heard that a mortgage broker would be the way to go for the purchaser, and must avoid FHA / VA loans.
You will want the oil tank tested. If it passes, you should be able to have it sealed and left in place. But that will depend on what your environmental folks say. If it fails, it is best to pass on the property. The clean up can be very costly.
As bnorton suggested, you should check with your state environmental agency and then talk with some env'l contractors. In addition, I would think twice about leaving the tank in place (even if that is legally OK) because chances are, you will have to disclose its existence when you sell the property. And who knows what changes in the law may have occurred by then. It's an objection. See if you can negotiate the seller removing it (clean removal) and requisite paperwork.
"Agree with NC_Yank.
We just sold a house in Cary NC with an oil tank under the back yard. It had not been used for many years, and had (a mix of oil and water?) in it, which might indicate it was leaking. We were anticipating negotiation or remediation, but there was not a peep from the buyer or his lender, so it quite luckily sailed right through."
Apparently you may still own the tank, according to the NCDENR site:
"Who is responsible for cleanup of contamination?
Primarily, the "statutory tank owner" is responsible for cleaning up the contamination. Who the "statutory tank owner" is depends upon when the tank was last used. If it was last used before November 8, 1984 then the last party who used that UST is considered the tank owner (even if that party no longer owns the property.) However, if that tank was used on or after November 8, 1984, anyone that owned the tank would be considered the tank owner even if that person never used it.
If I am responsible for cleaning up contamination caused by a home heating oil tank, what do I do after I report the contamination?
First of all, soil samples need to be taken to determine how much contamination is present. Groundwater samples may also need to be taken, especially if groundwater is close to the contaminated soil. A certified laboratory must analyze these samples. To ensure that the sampling is completed according to DWM guidelines, it is recommended that a professional consultant be retained. Depending upon the levels and extent of the contamination, as well as the geology of the site, further assessment may be necessary. The DWM regional staff can help you determine what further steps are needed (see map for addresses and telephone numbers). If further action is required, you will likely have to hire a professional to assess the site and clean up the contamination.
What kinds of companies do this sort of work?
Many companies do environmental work. Typically, they can be found in the yellow pages of a telephone book under "Environmental Consultants." When choosing a company, we recommend getting several estimates and references. The DWM does require that site assessments and cleanup work be conducted under the responsible charge of a licensed geologist or professional engineer.
How am I going to pay for this?
North Carolina has a Non-commercial Leaking Petroleum UST Cleanup Fund that will pay up to $1 million for reasonable and necessary costs directly related to the cleanup of a petroleum release from your UST. The cleanup fund will not pay for attorney fees, tank removal costs, or for excessive or unnecessary work.
In the case of home heating oil tanks, this fund is available with a zero deductible to "statutory tank owners" and with a $5,000 deductible to landowners that do not meet the definition of an owner/operator. Please refer to our "Cleanup Funds" brochure or call one of the DWM offices for more information about this fund. "
Mike J[ Edited by mikejaquish on Date 10/06/2004 ]
whatever you do, if you decide to have the tank tested, DO NOT DO A PRESSURE TEST>.. this is where they seal the tank and force air into it... Unfortunately this can cause a problem if there is a weak spot in the tank. Get a bore test ... there are many companies here in jersey that will do the test and remove tank for less than $3000. Of course, if there is contamination, it could be 300,000. I recently had a property up for rent and alot of the applicants were telling me their landlord filed bankruptcy because he had a sizable leak on one of his properties... here in jersey it's especially bad because it often gets into the drinking water....
The company I hired out of Charlotte attempted to do a bore test but due to the rocky soil advised me that in order to test the tank properly it would have to be dug up and lifted to a point where soil collection can be obtained and sent off to the lab.
Well, dah..........If I have to dig it up and lift it, which I did.....then I might as well have the stupid thing "carefully" removed.
There are so many things that can happen when testing these tanks.
Here in NC, the government doesnt get involved with home heating oil tanks unless there is a spill or leak.
My personal situation was brought on by the lenders silly in house policy, NOT the government.
I took a chance because I had a big pay check coming from the closing that would have covered the cost and by me closing on time it freed up more land that I aquisitioned from the sale.
If not for that I would have told the buyers to find anohter lender or take a hike.
Again, there is no government requirement making you remove these tanks.
You can also contact the North Carolina State Environmental Management @ 1 704 663-1699.
They will be able to assist you or point you in the right direction, this is whom I dealt with.
NC_Yank
PS. I wish I knew about the fund the previous poster mentioned. I was out $1500.00
[ Edited by NC_Yank on Date 10/07/2004 ][ Edited by NC_Yank on Date 10/07/2004 ]
If it was me I would get a couple of estimates for removal and remediation and present the highest one to the seller as proof and deduct that from the offer price. Easy, done deal.
Too bad it is as-is, because the tank would become a disclosable item and they would have to deal with it with the next buyer whether it was you or somebody else.
That house came off the MLS this morning.
Today it may all be moot, but there will be other houses and other tanks.
Good educational exercise, anyway.
[addsig]
Many times it comes down to the lender / underwriter.
I just went through this mess......while the government did not have any set requirements as long as the tank was not a certain size / volume......the lender did have personal policy issues which I had to deal with.
Some times you can just ensure the tank is empty then fill it full of sand and be done.
The catch 22 is when you do have an oil tank in the ground, the lender / underwriter makes you dig it up and in the process there is oil on the ground.
Some of these tanks are very old.
Then you can be looking at serious cost of clean up.
I was fortunate but the soil engineer that I had to have on the job said about 50% of the jobs he does, there is soil contamination which means bringing in more government agencies.
If you are afraid of this happening then tell the buyer to find another lender.
NC_Yank
Agree with NC_Yank.
We just sold a house in Cary NC with an oil tank under the back yard. It had not been used for many years, and had (a mix of oil and water?) in it, which might indicate it was leaking. We were anticipating negotiation or remediation, but there was not a peep from the buyer or his lender, so it quite luckily sailed right through. Anecdotally, we heard that a mortgage broker would be the way to go for the purchaser, and must avoid FHA / VA loans.
Mike,
You will want the oil tank tested. If it passes, you should be able to have it sealed and left in place. But that will depend on what your environmental folks say. If it fails, it is best to pass on the property. The clean up can be very costly.
Thanks for the replies.
I like the house, the location, the price and update opportunities.
"...very costly..."?
Any specifics?
$5,000?
$10,000?
Mike J
NC would know better than I would since he is in your neck of the woods. Otherwise, your Environmental folks should be able to give you some ideas.
As bnorton suggested, you should check with your state environmental agency and then talk with some env'l contractors. In addition, I would think twice about leaving the tank in place (even if that is legally OK) because chances are, you will have to disclose its existence when you sell the property. And who knows what changes in the law may have occurred by then. It's an objection. See if you can negotiate the seller removing it (clean removal) and requisite paperwork.
Thanks again, folks.
"As is" deal.
Mike J
"Agree with NC_Yank.
We just sold a house in Cary NC with an oil tank under the back yard. It had not been used for many years, and had (a mix of oil and water?) in it, which might indicate it was leaking. We were anticipating negotiation or remediation, but there was not a peep from the buyer or his lender, so it quite luckily sailed right through."
Apparently you may still own the tank, according to the NCDENR site:
"Who is responsible for cleanup of contamination?
Primarily, the "statutory tank owner" is responsible for cleaning up the contamination. Who the "statutory tank owner" is depends upon when the tank was last used. If it was last used before November 8, 1984 then the last party who used that UST is considered the tank owner (even if that party no longer owns the property.) However, if that tank was used on or after November 8, 1984, anyone that owned the tank would be considered the tank owner even if that person never used it.
If I am responsible for cleaning up contamination caused by a home heating oil tank, what do I do after I report the contamination?
First of all, soil samples need to be taken to determine how much contamination is present. Groundwater samples may also need to be taken, especially if groundwater is close to the contaminated soil. A certified laboratory must analyze these samples. To ensure that the sampling is completed according to DWM guidelines, it is recommended that a professional consultant be retained. Depending upon the levels and extent of the contamination, as well as the geology of the site, further assessment may be necessary. The DWM regional staff can help you determine what further steps are needed (see map for addresses and telephone numbers). If further action is required, you will likely have to hire a professional to assess the site and clean up the contamination.
What kinds of companies do this sort of work?
Many companies do environmental work. Typically, they can be found in the yellow pages of a telephone book under "Environmental Consultants." When choosing a company, we recommend getting several estimates and references. The DWM does require that site assessments and cleanup work be conducted under the responsible charge of a licensed geologist or professional engineer.
How am I going to pay for this?
North Carolina has a Non-commercial Leaking Petroleum UST Cleanup Fund that will pay up to $1 million for reasonable and necessary costs directly related to the cleanup of a petroleum release from your UST. The cleanup fund will not pay for attorney fees, tank removal costs, or for excessive or unnecessary work.
In the case of home heating oil tanks, this fund is available with a zero deductible to "statutory tank owners" and with a $5,000 deductible to landowners that do not meet the definition of an owner/operator. Please refer to our "Cleanup Funds" brochure or call one of the DWM offices for more information about this fund. "
Mike J[ Edited by mikejaquish on Date 10/06/2004 ]
whatever you do, if you decide to have the tank tested, DO NOT DO A PRESSURE TEST>.. this is where they seal the tank and force air into it... Unfortunately this can cause a problem if there is a weak spot in the tank. Get a bore test ... there are many companies here in jersey that will do the test and remove tank for less than $3000. Of course, if there is contamination, it could be 300,000. I recently had a property up for rent and alot of the applicants were telling me their landlord filed bankruptcy because he had a sizable leak on one of his properties... here in jersey it's especially bad because it often gets into the drinking water....
The company I hired out of Charlotte attempted to do a bore test but due to the rocky soil advised me that in order to test the tank properly it would have to be dug up and lifted to a point where soil collection can be obtained and sent off to the lab.
Well, dah..........If I have to dig it up and lift it, which I did.....then I might as well have the stupid thing "carefully" removed.
There are so many things that can happen when testing these tanks.
Here in NC, the government doesnt get involved with home heating oil tanks unless there is a spill or leak.
My personal situation was brought on by the lenders silly in house policy, NOT the government.
I took a chance because I had a big pay check coming from the closing that would have covered the cost and by me closing on time it freed up more land that I aquisitioned from the sale.
If not for that I would have told the buyers to find anohter lender or take a hike.
Again, there is no government requirement making you remove these tanks.
You can also contact the North Carolina State Environmental Management @ 1 704 663-1699.
They will be able to assist you or point you in the right direction, this is whom I dealt with.
NC_Yank
PS. I wish I knew about the fund the previous poster mentioned. I was out $1500.00
[ Edited by NC_Yank on Date 10/07/2004 ][ Edited by NC_Yank on Date 10/07/2004 ]
If it was me I would get a couple of estimates for removal and remediation and present the highest one to the seller as proof and deduct that from the offer price. Easy, done deal.
Too bad it is as-is, because the tank would become a disclosable item and they would have to deal with it with the next buyer whether it was you or somebody else.
Thanks, NC_Yank.
I also am in NC.
That house came off the MLS this morning.
Today it may all be moot, but there will be other houses and other tanks.
Good educational exercise, anyway.
[addsig]