How Much Rehab For A Rental?
I am just finishing a rehab to sell it looks great and I expect a quick sale. I did granite tile countertops and new paint/carpet and new bath. But When I am planning on renting the property (future deal) how far should I go to make it nice. I think I went overboard on this one and I wouldn't want to do all that for a rental. So what are the important points to remember when I fix-up for rental? Thanks
Josh
[addsig]
you did solid granite or tile?
if tile, what size? do you have a picture?
[addsig]
Generally, just keep in mind that tenants won't be as careful as a home owner. With everything you do keep that in mind. For example, I use semi-gloss on everything. I put down tile or the imitation tile in the kitchen since they will make short order of standard vinyl. Buy higher quality on things that will break. Cheap cabinets will be destroyed quickly. Buy cheap on things where durability isn't a concern. Linoleum countertops are a fraction of the cost of granite but are durable and won't cause you to get less for rent than if you used granite. Don't go to the extreme though. Tenants want a warm, bright, comfortable place to live in. I looked at one property recently that the owner could not rent. The house and neighborhood looked ok. The first drawbacks that I saw were that all the floors were linoleum(cold, cold, COLD) tiles, and the walls were all brown(dark, dark, DARK)paneling. This place was definately low maintenance, but that was largely because no one would ever live in it.
I did 12"granite tile with a stained oak edge and backsplash. It really looks good. I'll have some pictures tomorrow but I don't know if I'll be on TCI tomorrow. (a little busy since I haven't even started Christmasing yet. I've been putting all my time in the house).
Josh
I kinda did the same on my first rental rehabs. I fixed like I wanted to live there. Grass cloth wallpaper in living room. Total paper the kitchen and bath. Ceiling fans in all rooms. You learn quickly after stripping paper off the wall because of crayon marks and grease all over the walls and roachs everywhere and just plain old filth. Is all the same too fpr low or middle income tenants. I have found one or two out of 100's that were clean.
Good LUCK and HAPPY HOLIDAYS
Hope this helps some
Ted Jr
you can control your spending you can rehab. to any level. for me the best control on rehab. materials was follow-up. you are right if its possible the renters will destory all and look at you and say "i'm sorry i don't know how that happened." so i always tied them to a "you fix what you break agreement" and inspected the property regularly via the old "pest inspection and spray" inspection. that always kept me on the pulse of the properties condition.
It really depends on type and style. If you are renting single family houses in a middle class area you go up a tier or two. If you are doing rentals in an apartment house you work to a standard. I usualy tile the areas of heavy traffic and carpet the rest. Unless I have hardwood floors. Those I lightly sand and Poly several times. My counter tops are tile. I love Granite but that is for the Hills of Hollywood etc. I keep them an off white cause everybody who comes in have their own special ideas, most of them just awful. Good taste is rare and if you do straight rentals there is not a very high grade of care.
The high priced houses in the hills also take a beating. If you rent to musicians, by that I mean popular types. Then you take a double deposit and you will have damages or they will paint one room all red.
Another source of rental income is to rent out to a picture company for a shoot. they may do a lot of damage, but your deposit is also very high. $5,000 up. But for a few days to pull down $9,000 is not shabby. But with care.
I always remember the little old lady who rented the 4 bedroom in the hills overlooking the valley. They shot a film in the house that went straight to video. The tip off was all the neighbors were out on their decks with spy glasses. Sort of a scientific study of close intensive relationships between man and his fellow members of phylum mamalia. But my client made a goodly sum. A lot of repair work afterwards. I understand the lead male was a dog called Rover, often wondered how he signed autographics.
They called him the sucessor to Rin Tin Tin. only more of a stud type.
I think the problems out here in LaLa land are a little difficult we deal with such a selection. It is often a little difficult to know just how far to go as the eclectic mix of tennants is extroidinaire.
Confused, Lucius
I agree with Lucius & davmille for the most part. On our rentals we do tile on the floors and countertops becuase of durability and cost.
(if the countertops are solid wood butcher block we leave it or if it is a corian type, but if it is formica we have noticed that starts to pull up and is easily damaged by renters cigarettes pots and pan etc.... so we replace it with tile)
We use a 1/4 inch groutline or less if the tile will look good for maintenance and durablity reasons, also try to use 18, 12 and 6 inch depending on the "look" and appeal as well.
We buy the tile in bulk at surplus places and use what we have on all ourhouses til its gone sometimes you can get it as cheap as 49 cents a sq ft we avg 79 cents. We have gotten it as cheap as 15 cents but that has been rare. The nice thing is that we are not limited to "white & off white and can stay up with the new construction trends on the "neutral colors" being use. We do stay with the neutrals and stay away from tile that will go in and out of color style. Buying this way we also can keep a few for replacement incase of cracked tile later when we are ready to sell and the house may have settled for whatever reason.
The min left overs will accumulate and then you can mix or do foyers walkways etc.... we use rough tiles not the glossy.
Paint we generally use is satin finish again it cleans up like gloss or semi-gloss (same pricing) but gives a flat look that is more appealing and less likely to find in a typical rental.
We try only to use carpet in bedrooms but depending on the local new housing we will tile them, we look at what sells in the newer construction and base our decisions there.
We try to control our costs buy using surplus places, new construction leftovers (if you have a builder) and purchasing "bulk" for discounts.
Don't quote me on this but if we do flooring, paint and kitchens we try to spend around $3G's or less on avg. The current project we have going is at $2100 and we have completely rewired the whole house (it was aluminum and we replaced with copper and put in two breaker boxes with new sq D breakers) redone the complete kitchen, flooring in the kitchen/dining area, remodeled the "front" by replacing the windows and siding and added a 20 x 14 addition. Should be done by the 1st of Jan.
I never thought of using tile on countertops. Sounds like an excellent idea! I don't see much of that in my area of the country. I bet it looks great! Anyplace where i can get some instructions on how to do that? (Example- how to prep the surface? What to use for your base etc)
Since you asked:
My procedure: Take off old counter top, down to just cabinets. Cut 3/4 ply wood for the base of your counter top. (I used to do one layer, now I do two so that the extra thickness will be solid around the edges for the edge tile to sit with solid surface under it.)
Attach the plywood to the tops of the cabinets, cut out sink hole.
Next attach cement board to the top of the plywood. I use the special screws made just for this, they counter sink themselves nicely. Cut out sink hole again.
Make sure that when you are done that there is no give, bounce or any movement of this new surface or the grout will crack later for certain.
Apply fiberglass mesh tape to all the seams with thinset mud.
Figure out your pattern, start with the top and apply tiles with thinset mud (I use acrylic additive just to be on the safe side) Do the edge faces last. You can just cut the tile you are using for the top or buy extra fancy edge tile molding or even wood molding. You can use round over edges or box it depending on budget and look.
Do the back splash in tile if you want.
Let it set for a day and then come back and grout it. Use the darkest grout you can stand and the thinnest grout lines you can live with, because grout is where all the issues will be later. If this is a rental the last thing you want to do is have to clean light colored grout after they leave.
oops forgot - use matching caulk not grout where the bottom back splash tiles and the top of the counter tiles meet, grout will crack for certain. The caulk will match the grout and give enough and not crack.[ Edited by The-Rehabinator on Date 12/23/2003 ]
Thanks so much for that lengthy explanation. I'm going to print it out for my next countertop project. No, 2nd question. About how much does it usually cost you in materials?
It depends on the house, not only size of counters but how fancy. The edge tiles can run you a ton of money. The ones I did in my own bathroom were $20 each 2x8 inches. 60 inch vanity counter was over $150 just for the edging. I would never do that in a rehab house. If you search around you can get deals on decent edge tile for $2-$3 each, but cheapest was is to use bull nose tile on top of counter around edges (rounded edge) and cut the normal tile you are using into 2x12s. (gets you 5 edges per tile)
Figure 4x8 plywood $32 a sheet
3x5 cement board $8 a sheet
Tile $1-$5 each
Grout $10
Thinset with addative $25
Tile saw rental $50
The Rehabinator gave great instructions for installing tiles on counters. That is probably the most guaranteed route to success. However, since most counters will already have some surface on them(most likely Formica) I think I would try QuickTile first(http://www.quick-tile.com/). They make a product that lets you attach tile directly to the Formica. I haven't tried it yet but I'm going to. Also, one tip on Formica. Formica has a clear layer of plastic that lays over the pattern that you see. For stains or burns that won't come off, you can usually sand them out with a very fine grade of sandpaper and the counter will look great.
Something id like to ad is that it depends on your market.
Some areas houses are sitting, and lots are for rent
so you have to think what can i do to make mine stand out. Sometimes just new paint and carpet and a few flowers wont due.
there is the infamous "location, location, location" slogan but also, think of "eye appeal' eye appeal eye appeal"
My game plan is to take little dated track houses that they built in a boom era and make them little " taj mahal's" in the current bust era.
You would be surprized how little the dollar difference is.
For example:
to remove all the trim on the corners of the interior walls and bull nose them was only 220 dollars. there were only 6 corners in the house. interior needed to be painted anyway so why not?
the carpet was nasty nasty nasty. so, out it went then came in 650 sqft of hard wood and 900 sqft of carpet 3800 dollars
this sounds like alot compared to just carpet but then again EVERY house in the neighborhood has carpet.
the lenolium in the bathrooms were torn and faded so out it went ,and in came the slate. only needed a total of 75 sqft. 16x16 at 2.00 a square so 450.00 did the bathrooms
fixtures are pricey. but man, does the brushed nickle look good. only needed 4 of them at 80.00 a peice 365.00
counter tops are still in the works but the granite tile is only 3 dollars a square so the math is easy and so is the work
6500.00 dollars materials AND labor is what it will end up being to totally change the look of the house.
i waited to find a deal so that i could do this to it.
we'll see what happens
_________________
B.G. & Wheeler D. LLc Inc.
(A division of: Half Vast Enterprises)[ Edited by WheelerDealer on Date 12/23/2003 ]
Wheelerdealer - I have to agree with your logic, I think along the same paths.
I believe that when people go to buy a house they look at houses in the same price range. If you have a 200k house, they are going to be looking at 190-220k houses. I want them to see my house selling for 200k but looking as good or better than the 220k ones and blowing the 190k ones away. Would make for a quick sale I think.
With all that upgrading you did in that house, what were the numbers, your purchase and what are you trying to sell it for?
I just finished a rehab in a mid range community. I looked at the other homes in the sub and tryed to one up them. Updated the entry door to steel doors. Replaced the old varnished doors to six panels, replaced the carpeting, installed new cabs in the kitchen, and new laminate countertop. All of these repairs were not expensive, but I think they should put my house ahead of the pack.
If you rehab the property for you to live in, you maybe going too far. My practice is to always go as neutral as possible (Whites, tans, beige...). In most cases, the first thing your renter will want to do is to change the color scheme. Make sure your property looks good and is pleasant to show. I use a rent/lease technique where I ask for $50 more to rent (explaining I fix everything). To lease is $50 less because I only fix the major things (i.e. leaking roof, A/C or heating unit goes out, etc...)
Well, let me add that how the work was done matters too.
The hard wood was set on a diagnol. And i traded my discount for some transmission work for ALL the popcorn to be removed. good move huh?
so the numbers are this.
My house 80k
rehab 6500 call it 7500
sale comm holding etc. 8000
plain jane spec homes not selling for 129000 reduced to 119000
even if i sell for 110000 i make money!
but if i get the high end look out!!
[addsig]
My houses are in the upper half of the lower third...above slum properties, below "upper middle class." I kept the same paint scheme for all of my houses, so I don't have to keep a zillion cans of various paint colors. I've painted old metal cabinets in the past, and had no complaints...and great tenants. I do paint the kitchens and bathrooms the same warm pastel color, but the rest of the rooms/halls white. A little color is OK, but that's it. I really like those little touches, too, like wood flooring (I do the floating wood floor, rather than hardwood), quality ceiling fans, dimmer switches...the things that the lower-middle class folks don't expect to find in a rental. I might have to do that slate tile! Next house I do, I want to use 24 inch travertine tile on the counters, butted up next to each other, without grout lines. It looks really nice, and is about $17 a tile. Finish with some Italian backsplash, and it looks awesome. Also, pretty cheap.
I'll add one tip for anyone interested. I love to use Dunn Edwards Semigloss paint White. It has a sheen that makes a place sparkle, and is easy to clean. I never have to guess what color goes on what wall, and you don't have to pay more than other good paint if you ask DE the best way to get a discount. AAA, contractor, etc.
[addsig]
lemme add that slate cuts like BUTTER it is amazing. The big tiles look so rich. i got the idea from touring the expensive model homes.. by the way is a great place to pick and choose ideas from.
I go to the model homes and then go price out what i can get it done wholesale for. if it makes sence, I do it.
[addsig]
Locutus(or anyone else), how do you install Travertine tiles without grout? I did a groutless countertop using granite tiles one time. In that case it was recommended that I use silicone caulk on the edges of the tiles. I still feel like there has to be a better way. Silicone caulk is soft and also difficult to get off the surfaces. Its seems like you could use a clear acrylic sealer between the tiles.
One of the first things I do with a long term rental unit is to blow a lot of cellulose insulation into the attic and weatherstrip. This has several benefits. First off, if the tenant has lower utility bills it is more likely they can pay the rent. Second, it is a good marketing point since I can tell the tenants that I insulate my buildings better than most other buildings. Third, it lowers maintenance on the hvac(runs less) and structure of the building. Fourth, it keeps the tenant from filling up the attic with junk that they will leave that I will have to drag out. If you do the insulating yourself you can add it for about $200 to $500 and it will give back all of the above benefits and more for as long as you own the building.
Whew, plywood is expensive in CO!
Good spot on the install of tile on cabinets pretty much the way we do it. Also Home Depot & Lowes have some home improvement books on how to's. We haven't bought these but many people I know have. We've just done what we learned years ago.
One thing I commend is that you do need to try to use a darker grout as light grout stains.
The thinner the line between tile is definately best and we use the acrylic based grout and thinset.
Done the tile edges but prefer the trim (as if you screw it in well will not come loose for some reason the tile will after a few years if your tenants are careless and destructive. We do the backsplashes too easier to clean and upkeep is minimual.
Tile tile tile is really a new construct hit around here lately and for rentals we can't find a better product. Still recommend you get to know your surplus dealers and builders they can save you a ton of $$$$ in materials.
Good luck Have fun!
The people who sell tile around here tell me I should use granite or porciline tile not ceramic or travertine on countertops because the latter are weaker and more suceptible to crack.
I put Durock on top of the existing formica and granite on top of that butted tightly together. Then I used GE silicone 2 clear silicone caulk in the seems. Then 2 days later I had to wipe it off because it never set up. I say we boycott GE. the stinking silicone soaked into the edge of my tile and makes the edges look wet while the middles are dry. So I guess I will have to rub oil into the rest of the tile to get it to look uinform (any other suggestions?). All GE will do is refund my $5 for the cost of the caulk not the $300+ to replace the tile.
Morale: If you are using caulk on granite squirt a dab on a scrap and wait for an hour or two to make sure it sets up properly. I don't think it would have soaked into the tile if it had set up like it is supposed to.
Thanks for your advice and input every one.
Dreamin - have you ever used the epoxy based grout? Supposed to be bomb proof, or at least stain proof. I never have but would like to try it if I could work with it relatively easily.
Is anybody doing tile surrounds in the bathrooms for tubs and showers?
Only done them in my own house, look incredible, but those accent tiles will cost you an arm and a leg. Last one I did I had $1200 in tile, about $750 of that was for the fancy listellos and such you use for accenting and breaking up the field tiles.
Have never used granite tiles, out here everyones tastes seem to run in earth tones, so lots of sand colors, browns. Travertine is everywhere in new homes.
Anyone ever use the cultured stone products? Those are the veneer stone faces that you apply to surfaces to make them look like solid stone? I'm thinking of doing this to my own house over the "Brady Bunch" style brick fire place.
How about stamped concete? Probably not on a rental or rehab but in your own home? Very popular here in Colorado, it is everywhere.
What about plastic deck material? It fades like crazy out here in our sun so I'm not very fond of it yet.
-Rehabinator-
I just did a cool tub surround with travertine. instead of those $750 of accents I cut some 12" black slate tiles into 4" squares and put them on the diamond and travertine triangles on top and bottom (send your email and I'll send you a picture) it took a long time (4-5hrs) but cost nothing extra since I salvaged the slate from a really ugly fireplace I took out a while back. even If I bought the slate it would have been less than $3 each and I only used about 3 tiles. It looks like a million bucks!
(anyone out there ever see a million bucks?)
If you don't like plastic decking (ie. trex) try Ironwood available by special order at H.D. it looks way nice and apperently very durable even without sealer. It is also a lot stronger that trex. A guy at the local warehouse said that 5/8" thick piece has zero deflection spanned over 4'. I don't know if that is with weight on it or not, but either way that is a ton better than trex. he also said that the price is close to trex anyway. worth a shot.
I just posted a couple of pictures of my house on my profile. check 'em out.
Tile job looks top notch. I love your accents solution. To me that solution has all the elements of a perfect rehabbing trick.
Using a creative and (CHEAP) solution to make something look like a million bucks to the home buyer.
My only question in the kitchen is now that you have that really beautiful counter what are you going to do with those fugly cabinets and 1950's linoleum?
Just kidding, I'm sure you won' t have a problem selling it now.
Hope you are a skier and enjoying those huge dumps your mountains are getting! I had to settle for 1.5 inches of new snow at Keystone last week.
Hey,
It looks like most of this discussion is based upon selling the house, but as the title mentions Rental, I thought I would chime in.
For a rental, putting tile on either the floor or the countertop is a big NO-NO. Why? Because the blankty, blank tenant will end up smashing your tiles to pieces. I did two different houses with tiles and in both the tenants damaged them. Fixing them was a pain in the butt.
Stick with heavy vinyl and solid countertops.
They broke tile on the floor?????????????
If they broke tile on the floor what would they have done if there was carpet in its place, lit it on fire?
Security deposit, security deposit, security deposit.
I have to agree with Bruce on the tile floors being damaged easily by tenants. My own kids have knocked a couple of large chips out of ours. All it takes is knocking a cast iron skillet off the counter. Also, I have to agree that it is a major pain trying to remove the old tile. I can't go along with the thick vinyl though. I have tried the toughest vinyl I could find and they still cut it somehow. I like the new imitation stone, vinyl tiles. They are unbelievably tough, and if they do manage to damage one, you simply peel it up and stick in a new one. The total repair takes about 30 seconds.
That is totally freaky to me to hear people breaking tile floors. I have removed a lot of tile and it take a massive wack with a mini sledge to get the stuff to break up.
I may be sheltered but I just don't see it happening. Tile is rated with scratch resistance and hardness ratings, maybe I'm only using the hardest stuff by accident, and you guys are somehow dealing with really crappy tiles?
Like I said if the tenant is breaking stuff that is why you have a security deposit. I would love to swallow $150 dollars to fix a broken tile or two.
Getting a broken tile out should be a 30 second project, just wack it with a hammer and scrape out the pieces, chisel out some of the thin set if it is still on the floor and vacuum. Wet the space with a sponge, apply mud and reset another tile, grout in a few hours.
The hardest thing is having the foresite to make it easy on yourself in being able to get a replacement tile and grout that will match.
After you get done doing a new tile job in one of your rental houses I would stash 6-7 extra tiles someplace in the rental house where they won't be found along with ripping off the grout box top so I can match it later. If those pesky tenants jack hammer your floor you should be able to soak em for some money and pocket it because replacing a tile should be a 10 minute project if you plan ahead.
My problem is I buy all these extra tiles planning ahead and never end up using them again!
Quote:
On 2003-12-30 13:27, The-Rehabinator wrote:
Dreamin - have you ever used the epoxy based grout? Supposed to be bomb proof, or at least stain proof. I never have but would like to try it if I could work with it relatively easily.
Is anybody doing tile surrounds in the bathrooms for tubs and showers?
Only done them in my own house, look incredible, but those accent tiles will cost you an arm and a leg. Last one I did I had $1200 in tile, about $750 of that was for the fancy listellos and such you use for accenting and breaking up the field tiles.
Have never used granite tiles, out here everyones tastes seem to run in earth tones, so lots of sand colors, browns. Travertine is everywhere in new homes.
Anyone ever use the cultured stone products? Those are the veneer stone faces that you apply to surfaces to make them look like solid stone? I'm thinking of doing this to my own house over the "Brady Bunch" style brick fire place.
How about stamped concete? Probably not on a rental or rehab but in your own home? Very popular here in Colorado, it is everywhere.
What about plastic deck material? It fades like crazy out here in our sun so I'm not very fond of it yet.
Been looking at the epoxy grout even bought some for the next use just to play with in on an island to see how it holds up (seems the islands in kit's get the most abuse).
Got one rental with complete tile bath (ceiling, floor, countertop and walls -even around the tub) didn't put this in ourselves in one we bought but the look and durability is superb!
We will probably play with the concrete stained flooring (as I said in another post) on new construction, leery about doing an older existing floor. It is beautiful on the new constructs here.
We havent played with the veener stone like stuff yet but we are discussing testing it.
Haven't had problems in my rentals as yet on tile being broken except the tile edges to countertops, that is why we do wood trim screwed on not nailed. Wood putty to hide the screw heads, needs touched up when they move but not replaced as yet. Besides if it does get pulled off or damaged it is easier and cheaper to replace.
Sorry so late responing to you Rehabinator been so busy of late don't get on as much as I used to.
FYI you have several leftover tiles and no longer have the houses (we too keep a few spare for possible repairs) we use them to "spruce up" an entryway, and you can mix and match simular colors or patterns to do something really nice, or use them to "border" a small room or add a unique touch to a backsplash.
Dreamin away! [ Edited by Dreamin on Date 01/03/2004 ]
Quote:
On 2003-12-31 12:54, The-Rehabinator wrote:
Hope you are a skier and enjoying those huge dumps your mountains are getting! I had to settle for 1.5 inches of new snow at Keystone last week. <IMG SRC="images/forum/smilies/icon_evil.gif">
Unfortunately untill this house sells I won't be skiing due to lack of funds but I sure would like to reward myself that way when it does sell. I have at least a foot in some places in the valley. must be tons at the resorts.[ Edited by jpchapboy on Date 01/06/2004 ]
This thread has spent a lot of time talking about tiling counters and floors. One recommendation I would have is to simply not have much counter space in a rental. Tenants don't expect a lot of counter, and they won't pay more for it. It follows that you won't need nearly as many cabinets either. Cutting back on both of these will save you a lot of time and money. I usually try to only give the tenant about 3 to 5 linear feet of counter and base cabinets. Of course the wall cabinets add quite a bit of storage, and the kids don't swing on the doors of those.
Hey,
As far as what the tenants did to smash up the floor tiles, I haven't a clue. They were all around the cabinets. Some had littles pieces left, so they were recent. My best guess, is some dropped pots (maybe full) on the floor. So I had to fix 5 or 6 12 inch tiles. Big pain in the butt.
All my rental houses are in the lower middle class area ($800/ month). These tenants (the ones who damaged the floor), like so many tenants, dissappeared in to the night. I got to keep the security deposit, but lost two months rent and had to fix damages. The life of a landlord.
Bruce - maybe they were bowlers and had a bad habit of washing their bowling balls in the kitchen sink? LOL
Yes Bruce I am familuar with middle of the night disappearances in the $800 rental income levels.
I find these people differ I have had steady worker and those with multiple jobs historys. Don't get it.
The worst damage I have had was carpets and walls. I even have had one take the guts out of the toliets with them - yes it is true.
haven't figured that one out yet!
You know Rehabiator you may be closer to the truth than you think!
Hey Dreamin,
I think I can one up you on stolen items.
Your's stole the guts of the toilet, I had one that stole the stepping stones out of the front yard!! There were about 10 stones from the driveway to the house. They must have weighed (in total) a couple hundred pounds and were worth about 50 cents. So after stealing the stones, these idiots left a pistol in the house.
thats interesting as well! and funny since they were 50cents each.
I guess your old tenants and mind may have gotten worse places to live (yours needed stepping stones to stay out of the mud and mine needed a toliet repaired off the bat or they are upgrading and outhouse)
could be same people or related
HI Everyone, I'm glad I found this site.
We bought 2 family as an investment a year ago and it's been work ever since The only advantage being that in time if we survive is adventure after the morgage payment,taxes,water bill and common area elec. bill we still come out with 500. monthly profit for future repairs such as roofing. This Profit has been helpful in helping with repairs but to date there's nothing substanial in the bank to talk about. In the year we have rehab the 1st and 2nd fl. kitchens completely down to the walls with applicances included. Upgraded the elec. service in the house from 60amp to 200amp. We did this in hopes in creating another apt. on the 3rd fl. which was apart of the 2nd fl apt . (cottage style setup) At this time that is off the back burner. Put new curciut breaker boxes in,common box for the common area with new meters and security lighting around the entire house and an intercom system. As this property is not in the best of areas and our courts are for the tenants here if someone gets harmed and there no proper outside lighting that could have protected them. There were 9 garages on this property we had to tear down 2 of them due to repairing would not be practical when figuring out our cost and the rent we could get. Being handy and having a Master electrian in the family was certainly a plus; but even with this it has cost us over 40 k in rehab and repairs. We've made a mistake with selecting one of the tenants when the entire neighborhood was on us about them being unruly plus there were other issues with a nipping dog. Due to us being verbally aware by neighbors and up stairs tenants of the dog issues we could have been sued also if a child was bitten by this dog. We finally got them out; but they did alot of damage in the short time they were there. Which we have fixed. Material cost and our labor only. Now due to wanting a peaceful existance in the rental house we're accepting the 2nd's fl's tenant sister who has a section 8 certificate. The inspector came in the other day and inspected the apt. What took me by surprise was her complaints about the basement area of this house. and the chimney ? The roof on this house is about 10years old it has a life endurance of 20 years. The complaint is Chimney: "Gaps at top should be sealed in the near future"? My question is "How to avoid pitfalls when searching for a roofer." Any and all tips will help here. We've never needed a roofer prior and no roofer in the family or amoung our friends to ask. The other question is: "If there is a formula to see how long it will take to make up for the monies we put into the house so far." Plus is there is a site to see how much property values by state will go up or down on a yearly basis? Thanks for taking the time to read this. I'll be looking forward to your responses. Thanks again Tj
T,
I think you probably should have started another link. In your case, it isn't a matter of what you should or shouldn't do. It sounds like you've already done it and probably too much. Of course, you are going to have to fix the roof and chimney if you want the Sec. 8 tenant and it probably needs to be repaired anyhow. Just make sure the roofer is insured. Not only for damage to your house, but also in case he falls off the roof and gets hurt. You should be able to find someone you know who can at least recommend a roofer. Otherwise you can always call the BBB for a list, talk to a company that supplies roofing materials to roofers, or ask a realtor.
There are sources for getting estimates of projected housing prices for various cities and regions but I'm not convinced they are very helpful. No one can predict the direction of prices for certain, although places that have seen rapid increases often will stall or actually decline.
I'll post again my personal favorite for figuring out if a property will cashflow. If you multiple the gross annual rent by 5 you will come up with the maximum price I will pay after all imaginable expenses including rehab, interest, insurance, and closing costs are added in. Again, this is the absolute maximum that I will pay although I look long and hard to buy properties cheaper than this.
TJ,
You weren't born with the knowledge of everything you know now genetically encoded, so you had to learn like everyone else.
The important thing to do is learn what worked and what didn't and apply it to the next house.
The next one will be so much easier if you don't make the same mistakes you already made, and build on the things that went right.
TJ, you said you bought a 2 family and there were 9 garages and now there are 7?
What are you doing with these for a source of income? Anything?
One trick we have found in rentals is as little for as little each year, but use as good a quality as you can. Thats why we like the tile, good durable money spent.
Having people in your family that have great assets or talents to help you is a great plus plus. We have this as well, 2 of our good tenants (really good ones) are also in the construction trades and often pitch in to help with projects. They keep telling us they want us to succeed and then we can help them.
We will do the basics to get it rented and plan improvements for each year as not to eat up our cash flow.
(if I add an improvement just before the leases expire on the good tenant properties the good tenant tends to stay)
rents X 5 is a good number, making friends with a local appraiser is a good idea on home value info. not a tax appraiser but a good FHA approved loan appraiser. Ours is the best source we have found not just for values but for subdivision growth info, loan info and improvements suggestions. He don't cost us a dime for the info but we have our mortgage broker use him on our laon apprasials.
We found our roofer (we do some of this ourselves) that we use for big jobs at church. This is not for everyone, but in small towns you learn much from your local church members on who does good work and is honest if you listen and watch. The BBB is a good resource in other areas, you will want to see some of this guys work though and talk to the people whom had work done.
If you make an error (and some of us often do) in judgement, you will just have to chaulk it up and move on to another. But every chance you get you must inform others of a Bad service and where it came from.
hope some of this helps