Changing Water Lines
I'm looking at an older 8-unit building (1928) with galvanized pipes. There is low water pressure in the units and from an inspection report (my friend was considering the property and got it inspected) the pipes may need to be changed.
How difficult is this with tenants in place? While the ground floor units would be easy to access through the crawlspace, the upper units seem problematic. How is this generally done? Would I have to open up every wall and part of the floor where water lines run?
Any comments would be appreciated. The seller is very motivated and will negotiate credits for the repair work, and I have a plumber coming in next week to give an estimate.
Thanks very much,
Tracy
Hello Tracy
Continue with the estimates that is the best answer to your question as every situation will be different.
Ed
Hi Ed,
Thanks for the reply and suggestion. I hate having no idea at all when discussing things with contractors, so I'm just trying to gather whatever insight I can. But I understand what you mean- it's pretty hard to comment on a situation with so many unknown variables.
Tracy
Hi Tracy,
For access to the upper units walls will almost surely have to be torn into. The possible good thing here could be that the place very well may have been designed with one wall containing all the plumbing inside the unit (Bathroom on one side of wall, kitchen on other). Find a good plumber who is familiar with that vintage building and he may be able to tell right where the plumbing runs. I wish you well, thats a big project; I just completed the same thing on a 4 plex here in Mendocino Co. about 2 1/2 hours north of you. Later...
Hi afarmboy,
I appreciate your reply. It's very hard for me to envision how the pipes are run in this building, but I can see what you mean about hoping for a single vertical pipe run. Since the units are occupied, I'm also concerned about shutting off the water for long periods as well as the construction mess. Anyway, I've been referred to a good plumber so we'll see how things go next week.
Thanks
Tracy
Tracy,
Make sure you get several estimates for the work. I just had two new water pipes and a drain line run at one of my properties. The estimates ranged between $450 and $1450 for the SAME job!
After checking out the plumber (licensed and insured) I went with the $450 guy and couldn't be happier with the work.
Hi nyjosh,
Boy, I know what you mean about the variance in estimates. From what I've heard, it seems that many contractors bid high on small jobs because otherwise they don't feel it's worth their time. I'm going with a couple of referrals and hoping for the best.
Thanks for the feedback,
Tracy
You did not note how many floors.
There might be some ways to take a different approach and run the lines down from the top floor to the outlets for that floor. You still need to open the walls but you might have a cleaner shot to up one external wall.
Cutting over the lines is an issue unless you just leave the old ones there and flip on the new ones when they are ready with the old pipe largely still in place.
I would expect such ideas can be discussed with a plumber who is used to older buildings.
John
[addsig]
Hi John,
This is a two-story building. I'm not too concerned with the lower floor, as I've worked with someone before installing pipes from the crawlspace through the floor on the first level and have a general idea how it's done. It's going up to the second that's a concern. As you mentioned, going up an exterior wall is a possibility- I've seen this on many older buildings. And I know that I should just wait until I meet with a plumber, but to be honest with you (and everyone else here), I just really enjoy hearing everyone's comments. I always learn something new.
Thanks,
Tracy
I just helped a buddy replace pipes in his house, only to find out the connection at the street had been bad.(there was still no pressure after changing the pipes) he called the city and after they came out and determined the connection was shot, he had to hire a plumber to fix the main line running into the house. He didn't mind updating the piping, as always it came at "the wrong time" . My lesson learned.....Trouble shoot before you believe your friend!!!
OSH seel ~$15 presure gauges that screw on to a bid-valve.
Measured the valve right over the main, 63 psi. The valve on the other side of the house 37psi, even less w/ sprinklers on, so there are things you can check out.
Try talking to plumber that specialize in re-pies, thay can save sone cash.
Plus you have all those other builds, so he better make your 1st cheap.
The other thing you might consider while doing the plumbing is seperate meters. This way you don't eat the water.
Low pressure is generally a new mainline not a whole building replumb
That said you need to check the pressure at the meter where it comes off the main and see what the pressure readings are. Also follow the above posted advice and check with the city and see what they "claim" for PSI in that area.
A mainline can be done in several ways, the most common is for a trench to be dug from the meter to the building and new pipe laid in. I have gone creative in the past and dug up the meter, hooked onto the old pipe (after disconnecting from meter) with a backhoe and on the inside of the building after knocking out the cement around the pipe hooked on with flexible copper tubing to the galvanized and then jerked it through the ground after the galvanized, this has about a 40-50% chance but saves a lot of time and money if it works.
If you do it the conventional way then you can dig it up yourself instead of paying the plumber $60 and hour to dig or run a backhoe. then all the plumber has to do is lay in the pipe and hook it up, this is much much cheaper.
Good Luck!
[addsig]
Good tip, jhardman- I've made many of those kinds of mistakes also. You've really got to keep your sense of humor at times like that :o)
cjmazur- I didn't see a valve to screw in the pressure gauge anywhere. There's a house valve close to the street valve, but the pressure is good to that point. I'll take another look this weekend.
Stockpro- I like your creative approach to re-piping. And the plumber I met with said exactly what you said about preparing the area for new pipe. There's a lot I could do myself to cut down on costs, and he said he could precisely detail where I could cut out drywall, etc. to save on labor costs.
Thanks again very much to everyone!
Tracy
Separate meters is a good idea, although I hear they're expensive to put in. In my area, owners pay for water, so I'm not sure if it would be worth it. But it's something to think about.
I thought the service live from the meter to the house what the water dept. responsibility. Maybe the local one is (was) generous.
Hi cjmazur,
I'm not sure I understand your comment. My understanding is that the owner is responsible for the pipe from the house to the street meter and the water co. only deals with the connection in the sidewalk box. But, as with many things, I could be wrong!
Tracy