Real Estate Problem..buyers From Hell...need Help
We bought a little house last year hoping to sell it within a few months.
No luck.
Then in December, we found a buyer. This guy had horrendous credit, so we turned him over to our mortgage guy. He ended up getting him a 95% loan.
We offered to pay their down payment (stupid).
They turned out to be hella greedy, wanting EVERYTHING.
They sat there almost crying saying how bad they wanted out of their crack city apts they were living in. We were supposed to be closing in 2 weeks, so we told them they could move in early (stupid)
They needed a refrigerator and a stove. We bought them used ones. The night the refrigerator was being delivered, he called us saying, "Where's my f***** refrigerator????" This was 2 days after he almost cried wanting out of his lease.
Then the buyer decided he had to have central
a/c. We told them we didn'thave the money to do that.
So he found a guy who would install one for $2200. So then this guy wanted us to pay half.
I said no, but then my husband agreed. He even stayed over there all day helping install it.
So then 2 weeks later, we were told that we were going to have to pay their closing costs.
God, now that's over $10,000 to pay for them.
We were desperate to close on the house so we said we would. But we told them concerning the
a/c that we were paying out too much already.
Well, at closing, they showed us the paper that my husband signed saying they wanted the $1100.00
I said no way, that we had already paid out too much already.
So our "people" told him its either the a/c or the house. So they signed the papers. We closed, it funded. End of story. Until Saturday, the a/c guy called us wanting his money. We told him what had happened at closing.
Anyway, I looked at this little piece of paper that my husband signed and it only has his name and the buyers name. No where on it does it say the a/c guys name. So now the buyers are calling me saying the a/c guy can take me to court for this money. I said go ahead.
So does the house being sold help us out in any way at all???
ADVICE TO ANY FUTURE REI- BE HARD ASSES! IT COSTS TOO MUCH TO BE NICE!
[ Edited by Emster on Date 02/25/2004 ]
I believe I would have let them out of this deal when they wanted out. If the piece of paper says that your husband agreed to pay for half of the a/c, and it's signed by both parties, I would say you are hella-screwed.
Holding costs versus all this has cost....I can't imagine it being even close.
Take it as a life lesson. You became a very motivated seller and someone took advantage of that in an (arguably) unethical way. I don't know Texas law, so I'm hesitant to say whether you do or don't have any legal responsibility to pay based on that piece of paper. But you might want to check with your lawyer. you might also want to consider barring your husband from any further negotiations for the foreseable future. Good luck.
[addsig]
Quote:I believe I would have let them out of this deal when they wanted out. If the piece of paper says that your husband agreed to pay for half of the a/c, and it's signed by both parties, I would say you are hella-screwed.
Holding costs versus all this has cost....I can't imagine it being even close.
They never wanted out of the deal.
Us paying close to $18,000 for them is worth fighting to keep $1100.00
The a/c deal was between my husband and the a/c guy. But the piece of paper does not have his signature on it, only the buyer.
So if he takes us to court, he has no documentation, and if the buyer takes us to court, they will probably say its between us and the a/c guy.
Catch 22??[ Edited by Emster on Date 02/25/2004 ]
Almost sounds like the a/c guy and buyer are in this together. Or the a/c guy is coming after you because he realizes that with their horrendous credit the buyer is a lost cause.
I guess it comes down to - Who signed a contract with the a/c guy to do the install. Most likely your husband since you were still owners at the time. That makes you liable for the bill.
What a mess! Tough lesson. I would talk to the attorney you closed with. They may either be able to help or refer you to someone who could advise you better.
The best payback will be when this house shows up on the lis pendens list. It certainly sounds like a good bet to me. Keep an eye out for it, then go for the kill.
Quote:I guess it comes down to - Who signed a contract with the a/c guy to do the install.
Actually, there is no signed documents between us and the a/c guy. The only document is my husband saying he would pay the remaining balance. Him and the potential buyer signed it, not the a/c guy.
So like I said, if the a/c man takes us to court and hands the judge that document, his name won't be anywhere on it.
Like my real estate agent said, this isn't even in the contract on the house. Its an outside agreement.
We just decided that we had paid out enough money for these bastards and wasn't going to do it anymore. When they pay their first payment in April, they will have gone 3 months without paying rent/mortgage.
I think they can pay the rest of the a/c money.
Quote:The best payback will be when this house shows up on the lis pendens list.
Can you tell me what this is????
[ Edited by Emster on Date 02/25/2004 ]
The air conditioning is in the house that was sold. Talk to the ac guy and ask him to put a lean on the house for his money...and if you pay...you put a lean on the house. At least they can't sell the house without paying you. And it won't help their credit either. Plus...did you not set it up to have escrow pay for the ac? If so, check with escrow. If not...go for the lean. The lean may stay on the house until it sells...which could be years, but paybacks a b. and it sounds like the buyers deserve what they get!
Lis Pendens is the document showing that there is a lawsuit pending on the property.
Quote
lus...did you not set it up to have escrow pay for the ac?
This was a side agreement. It was not even in the sales contract of the house.
Then go for the lean. Next time you sell, write everything into escrow that has to be paid for by either side. I am a realtor and I do this type of thing all the time. It saves everyone a lot of head aches.
But now, the lean is your best bet. The ac guy should really do it, but if he is going after you...then you do it.
Jwilson brings up an interesting point. Tell the a/c guy to check the mechanics lien laws for your state and see if he qualifies. That'll cloud the title. If they ever want to sell they'll have to come to him to clear it up. And voila he gets his money.
It's really his only option since he didn't sign the paper between you and the buyer. Verbal agreements are worth the paper they are written on is a common quote around here.
Looks like the a/c guy will learn a lesson as well
This is what the promisory note says:
"Balance owed $1100 on a/c installation for "address" from John Smith(us) to John Doe(future homeowner)."
The a/c guy is nowhere on there. Just written out between us and the future homeowner.
But THE agreement is for each side to pay the a/c guy, not for us pay the homeowner. So I don't know why my husband put to the homebuyer, not the a/c man.
[ Edited by Emster on Date 02/25/2004 ]
Hey,
This gets sort of convoluted after this many messages, but here is what I understand:
1) You (your husband) signed a contract to pay $1100 to the buyer.
2) You did not do it.
If those facts are correct, all the rest of the discussion is irrelevant. It doesn't make any difference if you bought them a stove, gave the three months free rent or that the A/C guys name is not on any paperwork.
The A/C guy files a lien against the house to collect his money and the buyer can turn around and sue you for performance. They will collect court costs also.
I can't help but feel bad for the HVAC guy. This guy came out and installed the A/C unit as agreed. At the time of his installation, you were going to pay half.
Then you pulled the carpet out from under him, not your "Bastard" buyer. At least in the short term, He is the victim of your pulling out of your husbands agreement to pay half.
Does anyone else have any problem with that?
Thanks! Have a great day!!
Greeting Emster,
I’m not an attorney, but I tend to agree with Bruce and jrkiper. Your husband signed an agreement with the buyer and then defaulted on it. Now, if you and your husband feel there are legitimate reasons why, then that becomes an issue for the court to decide, if the buyer wants to press it.
But it sounds like the AC guy does not have any recourse against you – however, the buyer does. So, if the AC guy goes after the buyer and a lien gets filed, the buyer could in turn come after you with his contract in hand. Which could end up costing far more than the $1,100.
Unfortunately, the AC guy is getting the short end of a dispute between you and the buyer. Maybe you could talk to the AC guy and work something out directly. Maybe use him on other properties you own? Maybe refer him to other investors in your area? Just a thought…
Good luck.
If you told the guy you were going to pay 1/2 the AC, pay half the AC. Honor your word. Always do what you say your going to do! End of story.
This is what I just got from a lawyer.
"Whatever is in the contract of sale is what the court will look at. Also, the a/c cant come after you if you did not contract with him."
Well, the a/c is not in the sales contract.
I told the a/c guy that I felt bad for taking a stand. In fact, he understood. All I am trying to do is take a stand and make these buyers actually PAY for something. Besides, it was the BUYERS idea to put central air in the house. We told him we weren't paying for a/c. We couldn't afford it. He knew there was no a/c inthe house when he signed the contract to buy the house.
No more Mr. Nice guy for me.
I got majorely screwed and taken advantage of by these people. People who refused to pay a freaking dime.
They can pay for the damn a/c.
It does not pay, obviously, to be nice in this world.
End of story.
[ Edited by Emster on Date 02/26/2004 ]
To do the right thing for the AC guy, I would have to talk to my attorney, ask how to pay the bill and lien the property for it, if you even can.... you did agree to it. It's irrelevant that you made other choices in the deal. This you agreed to in writing. But i would have to pay the AC guy since I negotiated that with him.
then I would call it lesson learned and walk away, making sure not to make the same mistakes again.
bonnie in NJ
I'm sorry, I'm still working on this... actually what you found was not a buyer but a tenant. They did not have a down payment, they did not have appliances, they think they deserve central air, THAT's a TENANT. Homebuyers sometimes understand sacrifice. Investors sell property and sell appliances too but it all has to be accounted for in the deal. If CA and appliances were being added, the price should have changed to account for that.
Live and learn, die and forget it all. I'm sure it's made for bitter feelings, but try to look at it as lesson learned and determine better ways of doing things for future deals.
bonnie in nj
Emster,You became what we in REI are looking for a motivated seller! As far as the agreement between your husband and the seller and the a/c unit,it is enforceable in court. You have learned an expensive lesson in REI. Take this as a lesson from the school of hard knocks. Cut your loses and go forward.
Education in any form, whether you sit in a class room or learn it as you go, cost money.
Good luck in the future!