Republican Vs. Democrat
After reading how one ignorant individual lambasted others in a different thread just because they may not have agreed with any one of his simple minded black & white points of view, I thought it worthwhile to ask this question:
Does anyone here agree with absolutely every position of one political party and disagree with every position of the other political party? Of course I realize that there are actually more than two political parties in the US, but for the sake of this discussion, let's stick to the two largest and most well known.
So how about it. Can anyone honestly say that their views on taxation, health care, abortion, school prayer, immigration, stem cell research, international affairs, and every other issue completely coincide with the views of one party?
I have a sneaking suspicion that things are not nearly as black and white as many would have us believe.
I agree with this viewpoint, I am not voting for Kerry I am voting against Bush, what are my options??
[addsig]
I vote strictly ECONOMICS. Republicans are for "free enterprise" and the Democrats are for "socialism" ...ala redistribution of the wealth. The free market (without outside forces interfering with it) made this the most powerful economic force in the history of the world. Clinton inherited a great economy thanks to a free enterprise supply sider " Ronald Reagan"...an economy that had been run into the ground by the Democrats under Jimmy Carter...or are you all old enough to remember...Corporation tax rates( "THE RICH" ) were jacked up to 76% ...yes 76%...by the time they were through they destroyed the car industry thus handing the market to Japan and completely killing our steel industry at the same time. You can't interfere with the free market system with 76% tax rates and expect it to function properly ...the late seventys to 1982 was the worst economy i have ever seen in this country. Those of you that think the deficit is a bad thing...not nearly as bad as a surplus. A surplus takes the money out of the hands of the public and will slow & eventually stop the "means of production"...this led to the recession Bush inherited from Clinton who could not leave good enough alone (his tax rate hikes) ...you know, i think it's about time everyone woke up. Economics and Adam Smith's "Wealth of Nations"needs to be a required reading & understanding by everyone especially members of congress...but again that would run contrary to the Liberal Socialist hidden agenda of the Democratic party...regards...CWal
Free Enterprise!
Yeah right! Did you know that today we provide approximately $3/gal subsidy for gasoline? Those big oil companies need it! We also reduced the R&D and grants to subsidise alternatives like alcohol and electric run cars.
We (Republican leadership) subsidize Japanese Steel and not our own! We give tax breaks to China so they can dump there goods and weapons here to fund their military buildup. We subsidize corporations to leave the USA to operate cheaper tax wise. We reduce the TAX on the Rich (Subsidize) and increase the responsibility of each State to make up for it based on cuts of state money from the Federal Govt to pay for those taxes.
Republicans subsidize ignorance and call it the Party Line! I'm a Conservative Moderate! I believe in fiscal responsibility! (Not a Republican Virtue Now!) I believe in Homeland Security versus Subsidizing certain companies in their quest for oil in IRAQ. I believe in honesty over arrogance. I believe in our military and our veterans. If these beliefs make me a LIBERAL, then by GOD I'm a Liberal!!! I thought I was a person with a mind to know right from wrong! Our current political leadership is WRONG! NOT CONSERVATIVE & BY GOD NOT RIGHT!!!
Ray
Hey a real discussion!
I posted this on another thread, but everyone just called me names. lol.
I was on another board and this was brought up with some great discussions and insight....
If Gore won the presidency last time around and everything that happened under the Bush administration happened under the Gore administartion. All the same decisions were made and we were exactly where we are right now, would you reelect Gore or would you vote for Bush if ran against him?
Well that is a good question! I as an Independent who has been leaning Democratic the last 2 election before this one, would have voted for anyone other than the incumbent if the scenarios were the same.
I voted for Nixon, Ford, John Anderson, Dukakis, Perot, Clinton, Gore and now Kerry.
What Bush has done is appalling! And he gloats in his weakness.
Now, a question for you! What if Gore won last time as you said and things were the same, would you be after Gore with the same zeal as Republicans were after Clinton?
"Now, a question for you! What if Gore won last time as you said and things were the same, would you be after Gore with the same zeal as Republicans were after Clinton?"
Sorry about the cut n paste, I want to read it as I answer. Hmmm...
I don't know. I didn't vote for Clinton, but I didn't care about his sex life either.
I really didn't like Gore much. I would definately be after him as much as I'm after Bush.
I didn't really answer, but I'm not sure I can relate.
Anyone who agrees with every position of someone else is should be deemed BRAIN DEAD. I do not believe in voting D or R I select the one whose action not views are for the good of the majority.
1.Has anyone travelled overseas with a US passport lately? News flash the US is not looked upon like the super power it used to be.
2. How about vixing the issues in our country before another. It's like complaining about the neighbour's kids when yours are disfunctional
3. Too much focus is on the war in Iraq. Which we are told came as a result of 9/11. When was Iraq found guilty of the events of 9/11? or are we a country to guitly until proven innocent?
Every election year the candidates do the same pitch hug babies, shake hands with the poor and other gimics for the media expecting the public to buy their advertise product which after the purchase is seldom what it should be. Are we voting for the person with the best sales pitch or someone who actually have a plan for progress.
hey ray...your heros ran this country for 50 yrs. Your littany did not just happen it's been in place forever...thanks to them . I agree that we subsidize TOO MUCH however if you can't even get judges appointed when your in power how are you going to change your laundry list. I am a Conservative that probably agrees with 90% of what you say ...however, if you think the Democrat party is going to change the above i've got a bridge in Brooklyn...when i was young I was also a proud Liberal but in the words of Winston Churchill "any man who is under 30 and is not a liberal has not heart ; and any man who is over 30 and is not a conservative, has no brains "... I take it your under 30...CWal
Nothing, especially in polics is in black and white. What do find dangerous is peopel who vote for a ma without knowing anything about him. I lived in Massachusetts for many years and I am a Vietnam Vet, 2 tours and 8 monthsin a hospital, does that make me qualifid to be presiden?
If you hinkyou now Kerry, ask yourself When he got his Discharge from the Navy? Who is George Soros to him and wht happens if Kerry is elected.
I dontcare for some of Bush's decisions bu he is ethical and honorable.
I think the war in Iraq was absolutely necessary. I'm not faulting Clinton but under Clinton we did not preemptively strike Afghanistan and take out Al Queda. The lesson we learned from that is if you don't get them they will eventually get you. That is where Iraq enters the picture. Saddam and his regime obviously hated the US. At some point in time he was going to supply terrorists with money or arms. So we could sit back until it finally happened after another attack that devastated our economy, or we could do something about it now. That is why I am voting for Bush and I am a HUGE supporter. He made a decision that wasn't popular. How easy is it to just go with the flow and say what people want to hear? John Kerry does it all the time. That is why he is reguarded as a flip flopper. He goes with whatever is popular. Bush hasn't done that. He made his decision and has stuck with it even when it was and still isn't popular. Even though it may ultimately keep him from being reelected. That takes courage to do what is right. Kerry just thinks about the short term and getting himself elected. And we didn't attach Iraq either. We attacked Saddam Husseins regime and yes they were guilty. They had proven their guilt many times.
Iam a 25 year retired army first sgt. I served during the berlin cuban crisis and in vietnam. Today iam 100% disabled due to diseases i picked up while in uniform. I said all of that to say this, I dont think we belong in iraq and i didnt think we belonged in vietnam, i will never forget how we snuck out of vietnam in the middle of the night, we left that country in shambles, nothing gained
except for 50,000 or more of our troops dead. Iraq is a political football thats being kicked all over the place while americans sleep. The american public brought us home from nam, and they will bring us home again. I believe that george bush is the worst commander and chief ive ever seen. its time for a change, give john kerry a chance and in four years if i dont like the direction hes taking this country in i will vote him out .
1sg retired :-x :evil: :-(
What is the difference etween Kerry, Bill Clinton and Jane Fonda? Nothing, they all have had contact with a Communist government speaking out against tis countries fighting men.
I personally evaluate each issue seprately, but I tend to support issues that keep the free enterprise system working. I'm not rich and can't take advantage of many of advantages provided to large taxpayers, but I also don't talk about how unfair and evil they are either. Part of the American Dream is believing that you will be able to achieve wealth in the future. I noticed that many of our leading Democratic lawmakers are extreamly wealthy and take these tax breaks all the time. Yet, they would gladly eliminate it to keep you from receiving it.
I know one person said they are not voting for Kerry but against Bush. Sorry, but In the history books all that counts is who wins, not who got voted against. The winner always claims they have received a clear mandate, even if they only win by 1 percent.
[addsig]
NYRE
Yeah, I certainly dont come close to agreeing with everything from either party.
A friend of mine just came back from Europe and said he had many lively discussions while there.
It was said over and over that they are just plain scared of our govt now. He did say, however, that they liked Americans as a people, but as a country we seemed pretty war crazy.
NHralph,
You certainly have the credentials to have a strong belief in one man or the other. Thanks for serving.
I really don't know much about Kerry as you say. I assume we have been told all the dirt on him by the media and I merely decide if that's accetable to me.
I was originally an immigrant from Canada (came here at 19 )...I am more tha appalled at how the Liberal party has ruined that country...from secularism to controlling the news...their people don't have a clue. Their dependance on the U.S. is astounding...from defense of their country to their economy...their defense is a paltry 2 1/4 % of ours and the socialist liberals are lucky to have 9% unemployment & the healthcare system that the Democrats are trying to shove down everyone's throats is loved by the average person but hated by the gov't. why, because come the 9th month of the year they are running out of money...everyone loves something for nothing...but not something that costs, by some estimates .20 to .40 of every working dollar...what are the Democrats going to cut to get this healthcare or are they just going to tax us into bankruptcy...p.s....i believe Canada has tort reform...maybe thats the answer...wait, their against that too...tell me just how they are going to pay for it...a proud American...CWal
Boy,I see where they got their name for this!! So tell me, how many converts has anyone made? My OL' DADDY told me me when I was just a PUP That argueing politics,religion,or about labor unions was useless! Sorta like urinating into a hard breeze!!
Am I alone in feeling as if I am being asked to vote for the president of Iraq and not the US. A lot of Bush supporters are seem to be praising him on the fact the although Iraq was not our direct threat the lives of people in Iraq is better. By whose standards? What about domestic issues? American's are not secure with their futures. I think with should vote to have more parties to choose from. May God bless us if we have another four years like the last. Then we would have to follow some celebrities and move overseas - have a back up plan
NYRE
Good point about the parties. In reality they are one in the same, with a little change of rhetoric here and there.
It seems pretty much engrained into the system now, though.
I love how the "free maket" Repulicans keep saying Clinton inherited Reagan's economy. Were you thinking of Bush the Elder. He actually was President after RR. Or were you thinking of a space-time continuum where economic policy takes 13!! years to come to fruition.
You hate Clinton because he's the best Repulican of the past 30 years. He was everything a good Republican should be. He balanced the budget, creating an era of disciplined spending, shrank the federal government, cut welfare and protected the environment (that used to be a Conservative ideal - what happended?).
Reagan and W were major deficit spenders, devaluing our dollar and redistributing wealth to the already wealthy. As RE investors wouldn't it serve you're interests better if more people could afford your newly rehabbed houses? More demand would be good thing, right?
Tax cuts are not an economic strategy. They are only one element. Where's W's overall economic plan? He's never had one. Even conservative pubs like the Economist say he's got no plan and he needs to get one.
8-)
In an attempt to answer the original question posted in this thread, My answer is no. I do however agree with the views of the Republican party much closer than with the Dems. While I agree more closely with Bush that I do with Kerry most of the time. (that depends upon his stance any given topic, on any specific day), I specifically disagree with The President's stance on immigration, and I don't like the fact that he's not a fiscal conservative.
Regal asked a question about if everything since the last election went the same way, and Gore had been elected, would I vote to re-elect Gore. That's an incredibly big IF, but to answer the question honestly. That ficticious Al Gore WOULD get my vote if the other choice were John Kerry.
Clinton wasn't all bad either. The value of my guns appreciated more in his Presidency than in any other in my adult life.
Don't be disheartened everyone. Our system works. If we make a bad choice for President, the other two branches of www.Gov.t keep things from changing too quickly No country today has a gov't system that's been in place longer than ours. The countries are older, but our gov't is the only one that hasn't undergone a major revamping.
Thanks a lot to those who kept on topic. With the exception of a few mindless "I hate Bush, I hate Kerry" comments, I think this thread has actually been more on the issues than on personalities.
I spent many years as a registered Republican, but I've also spent the last 10 years working and living outside the US. I've spent time in the UK, Russia, Ukraine, Romania, Egypt, and South Africa, and this has been a fantastic opportunity to get a look at my own home country from the outside.
Let me start by saying that while we may vehemently argue about which party is right, the real differences between the two main parties in the US are very few both in number and size. Most other countries have a much wider gap between the views of their political parties. So to a large extent, it's sort of like we're arguing over what's better, vanilla ice cream with nuts or sprinkles.
As for the issues, I like less government, less market regulation, less taxation, and I'm not a supporter of unions. Sounds Republican to me. But I'm also pro-choice, in favor of gun control, and against prayer in public schools. Hmm, that's more Democrat.
It's doubtful that any Presidential candidate will ever fit 100% with my viewpoints. So my decision will have to be made based on those points that the candidates put forward as their "priority." In this particular election, based on those priorities that have been laid out and discussed time and again, I've made my decision and already cast my vote (absentee ballot). I’m sure that whoever is ultimately elected will find different ways to disappoint each of us. Hopefully in the middle of all that, they’ll also find a minute or two to do something positive.