Post Cards Or Letters - Preforeclosure
Okay, time to give it up, tell what works for you better. If you are sending out mail to preforeclosures what works better -
Post cards or letters and what is the pros and cons?
Seems like post cards would be easier to send, but also easier to ignore?
Are you sending out just one time or are you doing a series?
Are you sticking stamps or bulk mail?
I was actually just speaking with John Locke about this last night (yes, he does answer his cell phone).
You really need to put yourself in these people's shoes. Understand that they are getting mailings from everyone so the less institutional the better.
What would you open if you were financially destroyed?
I would NOT open anything that looked like a bill - at least not right away.
Handwritten would be a good start.
My mentor in direct mail, Jay Abraham, always says to test, test, test. Test a sampling (10 to 20%) of all your contacts with diffent formats.
There is no right way to do anything. Allow your audience to guide you.
Persistence is the key. Keep sending out mailers that tested well (at least 5% response - count negative responses too) until you get the property, it sells, or they ask you to leave them alone.
Just my two cents.
Marcus
Good post Spiritus!!
I personally do letters to start with and I print them and the envelopes and then I have my kids stuff them for me. Inexpenive way and the like to help. I am also knocking on doors for the followup. So far, I have had good enough luck with the letters that i have to knock on very few doors but that is in the area I am in. I am sure it's not that way everywhere. Hope this helps you. Good luck
pejames,
Do you sign the letter (Handwritten)? Or add anything else for personal touch?
Yes, I sure do. Good luck
Hey,
I am always amazed in how few threads or responses there are in the "real guts of RE" sections: marketing, landlording, rehabbing, etc. I guess everyone stays in the Wholesale, Birddog, etc forums and never gets down here. Oh well.
I have read hundreds (literally) of times that a handwritten (addressed) and signed letter will get HUGE response and the letter that has a printed address and printed signature will get a LOW response, but I can never find anyone who has facts to back it up.
I have also read (repeatedly) about people throwing mail away before opening it (so you handwrite the envelope to make them think it is a friendly letter), but I have never thrown away mail (except those damn credit card applications). Do people really do this??
MY thoughts (and they are only my thoughts) are a postcard is a great way to get your message out.
If anyone has ever tracked results I would love to hear them
1. Post card-it may get tossed, but at least gets a look.
.
2. Handwritten-not computer (i.e. junk) generated
3. Stamp. Again, doesn't look as "junk".
4. Brief, yet to the point...("need help"
5. "Neighborly" verbiage.
6. Should have your contact info (phone # only) and advise you will call them.
7. No obligation to meet.
My 2 cents.
Bruce Asked:
I am always amazed in how few threads or responses there are in the "real guts of RE" sections: marketing, landlording, rehabbing, etc. I guess everyone stays in the Wholesale, Birddog, etc forums and never gets down here. Oh well.
If anyone has ever tracked results I would love to hear them
Thanks
Bruce
My Reply to Bruce:
Bruce Nice to meet you!!!
YOU ARE K-REKT about the Lack of Interest in the MKTG FORUM!?!?!?!
Perhaps that is why Sooooooo Many are wondering and eventually wind up Doubting Creative Investing's MAGIC and PROFITABLE REALITY!!!
Yes - I am (and always have been)tracking the results of all my RE Mktg.
Here's a sampling of my Weekly Mktg Thrust:
1-Letters
2-Phone Calls (Voice-Broadcast)
3-Phone Follow Ups (LIVE)
and
4-Door-Knocking (Delivering a HeLP Kit or FREE CONSULTATION)
I usually send out 25-40 LETTERS weekly -in a 3 step series- at an average
response of 8% to 10%
40-90 Voice-Broadcast phone calls -also in a 3 step Series- returns about 10-15% response rate though I use this for both initial and follow up contacts, my follow ups sometimes returns better than 1 in 6 calls!!!
LIVE CALLS
I look over the voice broadcast report summary and look at:
WHO Got the VB Message? And Who Didn't?
Who Listened? And Who Didn't?
Who Listened the Longest and/or Got the Message ON THEIR ANSWERING MACHINE?
Then I do my personal follow up call script and offer them my Free Gift (the HeLP kit) or the Opportunity for a FREE CONSULTATION !!!
Response rate 1 in 5 (20%) of the PFL owners agree to receive the info from me Face to Face or a FREE CONSULTATION!
Door-Knocking I am about 90-100% because all of my previous mktg efforts builds up CREDIBILITY, PROFESSIONALISM, and the TRUST necessary to Seal the Deals!
I hope this helps Bruce!
Happy Investing!
Derrick Ali
PS. You don’t have to use voice broadcast in order to get my results you can MAKE ALL CALLS MANUALLY (LOT’S of TIME & DISCIPLINE!)
How do the Federal and State mandated "Do Not Call" lists effect your Voice Broadcast and telemarketing routines?
C-
I obtain the both the homeowner name from the publish NOD and their phone# Whitepages or Yahoo PeopleSearch.
These calls exempt me as I am NOT A tele-mktg firm NOR am I Attempting to SELL Anything but a Solution.
I have not had a recipient of my VBs to complain about DNC violations nor anything else. I believe its B/C the service I use will not allow delivery to anyone on the DNC list.
but I could be wrong!
I'll keep you all posted!
Derrick
Bruce- I too share your frustrations at trying to get real feedback on the real subjects of investing that matter, however I don't believe it is about forum location.
I'm firmly coming to the belief that there are probably 500 people using this forum, out of them I think there are probably 25 who actually do real estate regularly, and maybe 10 who actually are really pros at it. The rest are just regurgitating the crap they have been programmed from their books, tapes and gurus and have no real experience at all. When it comes to put up or shut up in a question that is asking for specifics you will notice how it gets fewer responses. But if you ask "what would you do with a million dollars?" or tell me this technique or that technique you will get every bone head who believes they are the next Donald Trump to respond with some inane posting.
Whew... With that being said, thanks for the real people who have responded here with real world answers. Derrick thanks especially for your detailed answer describing your program, I'll be printing that out and referring to it as I get into this more.
I am about to try something that I believe might give me some good long term results. It is about delivering a post card to an area that I know has a high amount of foreclosure in. I am planning on sending a post card every couple of months to every house in this area (2000 addresses) letting them know that I can help them with their problem (people who are going to be going into foreclosure, having trouble making payments ect...) Basically telling them I can buy there house with cash in 48 hours, just leave it the way it is, no real estate commission, I will help you get on with your life.
You are supposed to be able to do this very cheaply. Using a combination of techniques such as using http://www.melissadata.com/keywordsearch/zipcode.htm to give you occupants by radius of an address and then doing a carrier route delivery where the postman will hand deliver your card to each address on his list.
Since you can farm leaving out business, or apartments I see this as a great tool to reach every homeowner in an area you want to target. Plus because you are doing it by carrier route it is supposed to be really cheap, something like 11-13 cents each for postage.
I could see a niche marketing use for this also say if you wanted to put a message in front of every apartment dweller in an area about some house you had for sale. If it was a first time home buyer type house for a few hundred bucks you could maybe generate some interest in apartment dwellers close by who like the area they live in but might be ready to move into their first house.
Here are my 2 cents:
Many people do not have their phones listed, so you cannot get it neither in Whitepages nor on Yahoo People search. All FREE people search engines on internet use the same database.
Never works for me.
Postcards: never tried, but intend to do. Since the content on the postcard is for public view do not put "sensitive" information on this.
Mail:
1. I used a nice letter combined with few pages of helpful tips, calculate equity worksheet and stuff. Printed address.
NEVER WORKED
2. I mailed a signed purchase agreement, subject to complete inspection of premises.
NEVER WORKED
3. Sent short note saying that if they interested to get the offer for their house for FMV and sell fast for cash call ####.
For those who seemed fo fit SHORT SALE criteria added in hand writing my notes. For others added handwritten recommendation as well. Got a few calls (from about 20 letters) mostly interested to get some info from me ON THE PHONE! I do not care, I advise for free, althou I tried to promote benefits of the personal meeting, but No-No. So, NO DEALS as well.
I do not give up, it's a game and I am trying to master it. Will keep you posted.
Hey Rehabinator,
Good luck with the postcards!
I could not agree with you more on how many "real" RE people there are on this site. Every month a new crop of people come in, ask the same questions, dream a little bit and then leave. The core 20-30 people stay on board.
Here is a little story about numbers: About 8 years ago I joined GAREIA (the Georgia RE club). At that time, they had about 2500 members (if I remember correctly). Before I joined I had purchased three houses and rented them out. I didn't buy a course, or a book or have a mentor, I just went and bought houses. So I am figuring that GAREIA is going to take my game to a whole new level. So I go to the first meeting and there must have been 400-500 people in a room. Everyone is excited. They had a little marketing session: "I am selling this for $50k, $10k repairs, FMV $100k, blah, blah, blah". I was so excited. So I started speaking to the people seated next to me. And it was the same story over and over and over again. "Oh I have been coming here for about a year and any day I will be buying my first house. I just have to do some more research." Finally someone told me that the REAL RE people go to sub-group meetings, so I went to one. Now the sub-group was about 30 people (there were about 10-15 subgroups), so we are already talking about an 80% drop from the size of the main group. The subgroups meet in a restaurants big meeting room. Anyway, we start talking and I mention I have three houses and am buying another one. Everyone just looked at me. 20-30 people staring at me. I thought "Oh God, there must be a minimum number of deals. These are the BIG hitters. They are going to ask me to leave." I could not have been more wrong. I WAS THE BIG HITTER. With only 3 deals under my belt, I had the most houses (excluding the leader of the sub-group). So these people start bombarding me questions: "Did you pre-qualify the tenants?", "Did you go pre-foreclosure?", "Did you go to the court house steps?", etc, etc. They were speaking greek as far as I was concerned. All of these people, knew so much more than I did, but none of them had done anything. My point was that I was in the top 10%, after a few more houses I was top 5%. I saw the same 10-15 people every meeting selling houses (wholesalers), the rest of the 2485 did nothing. Sad but true.
Bruce - You described the Denver real estate investment club, all you have to do is subsitute the names of your members for mine and the clubs could be inter-changeable.
There are two main focuses of our club, lease optioning and selling courses, mentorships and tape packages.
When I first joined I had envisioned we would have a huge free library of every book, tape or course ever written on real estate investing, access to free mentors and everything else that goes along with a real "club" instead it is much as you described and less.
That is what makes real estate so great, most will stop when success is right around the corner, and for those who have the determination, will, and the pride to just keep on moving forward, the sky is the limit.
The more people give up and quit, the more opportunities arise for those of us who don't. Keep on Keepin on.
The other thing I think is both hilarious and sad is that there are really two real estate businesses that operate at the same time. There is the actual business of real estate investing and the other business that rides on its back like some sort of alien from outer space with its tendrels buried in the brain of the first business sucking the life out of it.
I can' t really think of any other business that has a whole other business operating off of it.
If you decide you want to go into the car wash business are there any books, tapes, gurus or the like that will supposedly show you how to do it and get rich? Nope. Think of other businesses, you want to be a roofer, walk dogs, run a travel agency, anything you can think of, where are the gurus, the tapes the seminars?
And the best thing is that a lot of the people in the first ring of real estate don't even look at it that way or find it strange in the least, they just consider it to be 'normal'. Most of them just chalk it up to that is how things normally are in businesses, people come and go and it is just up to me. They chalk it up to the fact that there are so many people who just don't do what needs to be done to make it so it is there own fault and that is just going to help me make it.
I'm coming into this business as someone who has been in business for himself 3 times, and seen business models from the inside out many times when you approach real estate like any other business the strange antics of what goes on around it is very strange indeed.
Take for instance how real estate seminars are always set up for a husband and wife to attend. Always offering a 1/2 discount to the second person. Go to a seminar and there will be tons of husband/wifes there.
Think about your work, when was the last time you took your spouse to work with you? Why is the guru circuit set up that way? The answer is obvious but it isn't what 90 percent of the wannabes here want to here.
Hey,
I never really thought about the 2 for 1 deals the Gurus offer. But you are 100% right. Having both the husband and wife there, gets past the # 1 objection: "I have to speak to my wife/husband first". Genius.
The two things that get to me about REI are all the newbies running around trying to buy houses on nothing more than a wish and a prayer. A whole ton of sellers are hurt by these people every year and the rest of us pay for it.
The other are experienced REI that sell houses with overinflated FMV and underestimated repairs to newbies.
Both of these are the same point you made about an industry that feeds on itself.
Strange.
Good luck .
I've had more suucess with postcards in my area. I send a brightly colored post card in an invitation sized hand addressed envelope with a stamp. The card doesn't ask them about selling their house, but more about how I can help them in their current situation. Sometimes they call, sometimes they don't. However, depending how aggressive YOU are about this business, I have found that following up with a knock on the door has been the key. When they open the door and I hold up my postcard and start my door script, 8 out of 10 remember my card, have read it, and are usually willing to at least here what I have to say. Usually they are very receptive
Has anyone had this happen? I had a co-worker inform me of someone they knew who's home was in pre-foreclosure. I jumped on it and put a letter in there mailbox that day. Well, that night I received a phone call from this person's 'attorney', or so they wanted me to think, threatening to take me to court if I didn't disclose where I got my information. This call, which we finally hung up on, was followed by six more (the 'attorney several times, the wife, and the husband) threatening, crazy phone calls ending at around 11pm....unreal. My advice...mail your letters and make sure the family isn't nuts .
At our local (Reno) REI meeting the other night, which I was a little hesitant to mention after reading the previous remarks, we discussed the same topic. The leader of the discussion has been in the game for a number of years and says the response rate is about 50-50. He prefers letters because they are closed, which maintains the privacy of owner. I think that sounds reasonable and is the way I do it, but I have been tempted by the US Post Office program that handles mass mailing for little more than the price of a postcard stamp.
In an earlier post Derrick mentioned a three step series, will someone clarify what this means?
I have never been to an investing club. I just figured they be the same as most other clubs. The complainers complain, the researchers continue to research, and the doers, either don't go to the club, or only go once. These clubs are supposed to be for networking, but the only people I know that go are realtors. Every realtor I have known has lied to me, so I have no interest in any of them. Please, I know they are trying to make a living. Don't you wonder why they have to try? If they ran their live on the up and up, they would get tons of business through word of mouth alone. That has happened to me. I can't believe the calls I have gotten just from word of mouth. People looking for homes, and people looking for help out of their financial ruin. Treat others the way you would want to be treated, and the deals will happen. I send out letters that are hand addressed and signed. I send out four, one every other day. I have not kept hard data on returns, but I know I get approximately 5 to 7 calls per every 15 to 25 sent. I used someone else's letters in the begining, but didn't like how they read. Then my daughter and I re-wrote these to sound personal, knowlegable, and compassionate. I believe these were the key combination words. I have even had as high as 10 calls out of 18 sent. I am finding most call on the first letter. Then I stop sending them letters. The rest call on the fourth. Persistence does pay off. I call the rest that don't reply to the letters if I can find the number, or I go to the house or the neighbors to try and find them. Hope this helps some of you doers.
From Dharon's post about a reciever of a mailing getting angry about it -
Are there any grounds to this? The information is published in public in newspapers what? minimum of 4 times on average, it is also public record available many times on the public trustees website, and is available to the public at the public trustee office.
Are there any legal grounds for sending some one a huge post card that says
"YOU ARE IN FORECLOSURE!" call me.
Besides a homeowner getting upset what legal grounds are there for them to stand on?
I would like to know since I am in the process of having a bunch of direct mail postcards printed up, which are very blunt and to the point.
Typical messages on them are: STOP FORECLOSURE NOW! in big red letters, or FORECLOSURE with a big red ghost busters circle with the line through it symbol on it. Or DON'T LET THEM EVICT YOU!, DON'T LET YOUR HOUSE GO TO PUBLIC AUCTION![ Edited by The-Rehabinator on Date 01/11/2004 ]
Sunre stated that you hand address and sign the letters. Do you also write them by hand? I have heard that writing the letter is also important, but that seems a little difficult if you are writing 30 letters a day. What is your (or anyone's) opinion on handwriting, hand signing, and hand addressing letter versus printing, hand signing, and hand addressing?
[addsig]
Derrick,
Thanks for the information. I did look at your profile and you have some nice deals in the making. Too bad you aren't in Reno!
[addsig]
Well, I've only been going at this for about a month now, sending letters to those in pre-foreclosure, trying for subject tos. I'm handwriting the addresses, using a regular 37 cent stamp, and sending a typed letter with my computer-generated signature on the bottom (looks surprisingly real). I'm mailing to about 20-30 new contacts per week, and sending a second letter after about two weeks. I'm also putting a small candy in each envelope to spark their interest in opening it. I've had two calls, both from first letters. It looks like next week I'll be signing a purchase agreement with one - the other I'm not sure what will happen with. Sure, its a lot of work researching and mailing each, and postage isn't free, but if I get just one every month, or even every other, with the amount of equity built into the homes I'm writing about, it's worth it. 8-)
I use postcards extensively for my marketing campaign. My postcards go to all lis pendens in my area. Then I send a different follow up card within a week or two. Followed up by a handwritten letter 1-2 weeks after that.
I have been satisified with my rate of return calls. I even after doing this for 2 months have signed my first deal which stands to profit $30K if I flip it, or $60K if I rehab the bldg and retail it. Not bad for a total of $4K spent in marketing.
I mailed out about 100 postcards and letters (to the same recipients) to people in pre-forclosure about 2 weeks ago . All letters had a handwritten address and stamps. I am using letter posted in Freebies section on this site (the one written by Tanya). I get pre-forclosure listings from one of the local services.
No one called me so far. I have no idea what i am doing wrong.
Victoria
my only concern with mailing postcards is the h/o may be worried / embarrased that a neighbor, mailman, friend , or even kids would learn of their financial troubles. i have an aquaintance of mine who's house just foreclosed and their kids don't know yet.
food for thought! trish :-o
Reply to The Rehabinator:
I wish I could tell you what works. I have a list of preforeclosures from my local sheriffs dept. that I get updated daily. I send out a bright post card on the first day. Then I send a short, to the point letter with personal signature a week later. Then I send another letter about a week or two later, this one with a little more body to the letter, and more selling points. I always use handwritten addresses on the postcards and letters. Then I try another very, very pointed post card. After 165 addresses, about 30 have moved (returned mail). About 100 have had all 4 contacts, and the rest are at various stages in the marketing process.
I can tell you this. Only one homeowner has called. We have met. She will probably sell to me.
Alot of time has gone into this, (and postage) considering the response. I use two letters I found here at TCI. I think one was from John Locke. I have slightly modified them.
I track all contacts using an Excel spreadsheet. Pretty simple.
Any suggestions anyone??? I'm goin' crazy trying to get the phone to ring!!!
Oh yes, I also just started using yard signs. They get the most response so far. 10 signs up, 4 calls (two from realtors).
HELP![ Edited by swaf on Date 06/21/2004 ]
When I had signs in my yards I got tons of calls. I couldn't belive it. Those were hand made "For Rent" signs I havn't put up my "I buy Houses" signs yet. I am not ready for the work load.
Josh
[addsig]
Quote:
Oh yes, I also just started using yard signs. They get the most response so far. 10 signs up, 4 calls (two from realtors).
What on earth do the realtors want?
I started a RE club in my area and had visions of it being an open library and instead it turned into a (very good) lecture meeting with a knowledgeable speaker.
I had to stop REI for personal reasons, but am starting up again now. If anyone is in MA, the meetings are very good. And I plan to institute a library lending program soon.
[quote]
On 2004-06-29 15:45, rottzilla wrote:
Quote:
Oh yes, I also just started using yard signs. They get the most response so far. 10 signs up, 4 calls (two from realtors).
What on earth do the realtors want?
Surprisingly enough... the realtors had houses for sale!
One is about to enter foreclosure. It just goes to show you..., ya never know where the next deal is going to come from.
Swaf
I fell you guys there are alot of talkers in this game. Especially in Washington D.C. But you can't stamp on peoples dreams. If you are smart you will find away to use these individuals and gather more deals. All they need is experience and what better person to give it to them than you. I consider a real estate investor how ever I am guilty of being profit hungry. I use people who are less profit hungry to do introductions and gain rapport in return I give them experience by walking them through a deal.
What truths you speak. I often wonder about it. Why? So much time studying and planning. Takes up all the time and there is nothing left for just plain doing.
In 1954, I am out of the service. Just resigned my commission, no more pretty little airplanes to fly, no more strange and wonderful wars to attend. I am back in Los Angeles. No pension and let me tell you no prospects. All that rank. I can run an Air Force, cause masses of people to revolt and raise hell but make a buck. Whats that. Sooo
what to do? Study, go to school. Hell the Air Force had already done that I got degrees up the gazoo, call me Dr. but making a living I know nothing. 32 years old a has been.
So I saw this beat up old house and I needed a place to live. So I talked the old coot who owned it into selling it to me for $500 down and he took back the mortgage for $6,000. A fortune. I moved in and started working on the place. New plumbing, paint part of a roof. Killed termites and bolted the house onto its foundation a small matter the builder forgot. I installed a water heater and I am leading the good life. My day job. I work in a Mortgage Co. In a Brooks Brother suit in the front office. The token Gentile. At night I worked on the house. Nice young couple came by and bought the place for $18,000. I was rich. So I moved out and bought another piece of junk. So poorly built that if the wind changed direction down it would go. So I fixed it up. My social life was negative. No time. Day time in the Mortgage Co. and night time your friendly handyman.
Long and short I sold about eight houses in about six months. By that time I was the General Manager of the Mortgage Co. and learning fast. How to be a Goniff in Six easy months.
The Moral of this tale: Screw the study, screw the planning. Face up only one thing to do. Go do it. Worked then and it works now even with a biggy spike in the market place. Just change the methods to fit the times.
Bought a house and paid the top price of the Spike. over $400,000 for a two bedroom one bath junker. How simple I met his price gave him a small downpayment and he came back with the mortgage himself. Oh yes, the mortgage is non interest payable monthly for 360 payments aka 30 years. Now people quick to your HP Calc, what did I really pay for this property. Figure if you like payments on $400,000 360 times then add in a normal interest rate of say 6.2% and what is the price?
See just go do it. and, and adjust to the times.
((($400,000 Divided by 360 is $1,111.11 a month.
$1,111.11 a month at 6.2% int 30 years is: $197,189.54 price of house.))) True value today $345,000+-
Now is that not fun? Greed is what makes it fly. and, a little Negotiation!!
Cheers Lucius