Painting First Rental Property!!
Hello All,
I am preparing to invest in my first rental. The property needs a fresh coat of paint in all the interior and some repair on the master bedroom ceiling. The quotes that I have gotten from numerous painters are much higher than I expected. I am looking at doing the painting myself.
Does anyone have any ideas about resources that I could use to estimate the amount of paint that I need and get tips on how best to complete the painting job?. I also need to find the right tools to use and find out about taping and other things to be aware of when painting.
Thanks in advance for your help.
JS. 
My Dear Sir,
I gather from your posting that you have never before painted a house. Are you so sure that you wish to do this? I know painters always want to make money. Have you negotiated at any length with them? Perhaps it would be better if you just hired a single master, love that word, painter and work with him as an assistant. You could hand him ladders, brushes, paint, mix paint, if sprayed by an airless, put your hand over the end piece and buy new fingers.
Really I do not suggest it. It is a trade, like all others and like all others should be learned from a secondary position.
Please do not attempt this solo right off the bat. I ask this on behalf of your neighbors, close friends and any animals that live near or close by.
Your friend, Lucius
Hey ... those large home improvement centers have weekend do-it-yourself seminars. Even the paint stores are helpful.
Painting inside is usually easy ... if you know somewhat a little about paint.
From my experience with the spray gun on a rental house painting the exterior ... on a slight windy day the paint spray mist hit my tenants car. Fortunately, my insurance paid the $750 claim. Then the neighbor complaint that I mist his truck ... but he never produced a claim on that ... I guess he just wanted the money.
If you are going to be a real estate investor ... it is wise to try to do some repairs and fix it items yourself. I learned that from my parents on their rentals.
Unless you are afraid to ask questions and learn (which so far you are out asking good questions) ... go for it. Hit the road to the paint store and home improvement center.
I will stop here and not offer a brand name ... but I once owned some of their stock ... sold it after it tripled and bought more real estate.
[ Edited by drand10 on Date 12/19/2004 ]
I would try one room and see how it goes. You will learn a lot , and you will at least save some money even if you decide to paint to have somone else paint the rest. Personally, I do not like the results that you get from spraying. The paint film can be thin in places which will greatly decrease the durability.
If you are apprehensive about trying to paint on your own, consider getting additional bids. As a general contractor, I find that painting is one of the trades that offer the widest ranges of bids. You can often find a tradesman that will work in the evenings or weekends for cash. If you are unable to find a bid that you like, Lufos is correct in suggesting that you negotiate. I rarely accept a bid with out further negotiation of terms or price. If the price is firm, maybe they will add value by painting the exterior trim or something else you may need. Whatever you decide- Congratulations on your first rental!!!
Make sure on a rental property you have a good paint job put on. The key is in the prep. Anyone can hose down a house and start spraying. You want them to pressure wash, scrape and patch. Should be at least 1-3 days for the prep. Used a quality paint such as
Dunn Edwards so it will last and you will
not be repainting in 2-3 years.
I would recommend you get several bids and find someone you can work with on a recurring basis.
Jeffrey Adam
[addsig]
Rule of thumb for me is $1 a square foot for painting, including the paint. And of course I look to get a price lower than that.
No offense, if you have never painted a house before you are not very handy. (This is not an insult. I do no rehabs myself. I think my time is better spent managing and looking for houses. Plus, I have a full time job still.) Not that you can not learn, but after you buy the paint, brushes, tape, drop clothes, and take two weeks to complete it you might have already had the house rented. Time is money.
I cant tell you any precise formula, but I can tell you what works for us. Our niche rentals are 1000 sf to 1200 sf townhouses. When we go in to paint (or repaint) we buy 3 five gallon buckets flat wall paint, off white. Two gallons high gloss trim paint, bright white. That amount gets the whole house done with a bit to spare for touchups (cost, about $200). We already own all our equipment (ladders, trays, drop cloths, etc.) and the paint stick where you load the paint in the handle is a great time saver. We usually buy 1/2 dozen or so "throw away" brushes for trim ($10 or so) a pack of roller covers ($10) and a couple rolls of blue tape ($10 or so). We use the inexpensive plastic blue tarps for drop cloths (like $3 or $4 a piece). It's usually myself, my husband, father in law, and a couple friends or other relatives. We knock the house out in a day, and we buy them subs for lunch, and dinner at a nice local buffet restaurant ( about $200 for the day total in food ). No beer until it's finished (unless you want knocked over on your carpet, LOL!) It's a rental, dont strive for perfection. Clean and presentable is all you need. You'll probably be repainting again anyways when they move out. So for less than $500 the house is done in a day, and we have a good time doing it. But we enjoy doing this kind of stuff. If you dont enjoy it, then hire someone. But give it a go yourself at least once.
Boy there's some smart people on this site! I subscribe to bgrossnickle and of course- Lufos' suggestions..
I always buy the paint. I always check with Consumers Report which routinely does extensive studies on paint products. You just can't go wrong with their selections, and you'll save money too.. So, my contract with the painters is for labor only. Once you know how they're going to paint (Roll vs Spray) you ask them how long it's going to take and the price. Next you pull out a calcularo and you say, "lets see that's $75/hour. Is that right????? (Negotiaton now begins) For my rentals, I want to be in, out and rented ASAP.
The idea of having 6 people work all day will soon get you in my predicament (other than Lufos) I have no www.firends.I've abused them once too often. That's six man-days down the tube. Or it represents days of productive time which could be use more profitably. Seriously, it that the best, most productive use of one's time??? One more purchase will pay for years of paint jobs.
It looks that after reading all of those fine advises you can only be more confused
Even the good painters are not busy all the time. They can be found in front of better paint stores for about $12+/hr. Guys working at the counter often knows who to ask so go to your local paint store and ask a lot of questions. Counter salesman can help you find the one who can help you finish inexpensively or if you decide to do it yourself, calculate the right amount of paint.
there are tricks to having a professional paint job. Additionally you should know the right primers and paints to use so that you don't end up doing it twice. You never want to paint over oil base paint with latex as it will not last very long etc.
I would suggest an handyman, as around at your local RE club for a competent one. I have neer seen good painters at less than $15 an hour and usually they are a lot more unless you can find a "moonlighter".
I would ask at the paint store for the name of someone that is "reasonable" and does good work. Then watch what they do, copy it, call it part of the cost of education.
I should eventually write a book called "The Nuts & Bolts of Rehab"
Which would address the basics but as yet have not gotten around to it
I will go one better, if you have specific questions and better yet a digital cameral you can contact me and I will give you some direction as to what should be done, materials, etc.
You may PM me and send your phone and e-mail address along with the pertinent information and I will try and help you on this. I am a professional.
pinkflamingo - wow, I am surprised your friends answer the phone anymore!
It is one thing to have a friend help you move or help you around your own house, but to have them work for you to profit financially for the price of a sub and a cheap buffet dinner?
If you owned a commercial laundry would you be asking your friends to come over and work every day for a sub and a cheap buffet dinner so you could put money in your pocket?
My take:
I agree in a large extent with lufos. However I think that knowing how to paint is an important skill if you own real estate. it is so easy to do if you have a clue what you are doing. I agree with going to Home depot for the how to clinics, but don't buy your paint there. the paint stores (like Sherwin-Williams, Kwal-Howells) give you better paint at $5per gallon cheaper.
Don't And I repeat DON'T try to do two tone paint!!! (white ceiling, pink walls) it is WAY TO BIG A PAIN IN THE ---.
You may be able to get your rollers and brushes cheaper at HD but not necessarily.
Coverage depends on if you roll or spray (don't spray until you have someone show you how) rolling gives you a lot more coverage. You measure your square footage (walls and ceilings) then go to the paint store and ask how much you need. 1 coat will not cover very well. If you are painting white over white it may be fine but white over a different color needs 2 coats.
Blue masking tape does not stick well to anything! Don't use it to mask windows. Use the regular white tape on anything that won't peel off (i.e. glass, metal, plastic, Formica) since you won't be doing two tone you don't need blue masking tape.
Here is an idea: offer a painter two days of free labor in exchange for training. It won't take much more than that to learn two things: How to paint, and How much you hate painting
Good luck
Josh
I guess our friends and family work differently than most. Since we seem to be more "blue collar" than most people here, we often trade skills. As I said, we have many construction trades in our family, and we do lots of "favors" for each other. My husband does auto mechanical work and also paints cars (he's a painter by trade). Yes he could absolutely charge someone $75 an hour for mechanical work, but sometimes (often times) favors are far more valuable. Case in point - my brother in law needed his car painted, taking it to a shop, for a mediocre job, would cost over $1500. My husband did it for materials only. When one of our rentals needed a COMPLETE HVAC system, we got the entire job done (furnace, ductwork and outside unit) for $1000.
We had a friend call yesterday, after he found out we are getting ready to settle on a new property, offering to help paint and do small repairs. Did he ask for anything? No. But he also knows if he needs something done, we are here. May not work for some people, but for us it definately does. And yes all our friends still like us.
pinkflamingo, you sad:
" But we enjoy doing this kind of stuff."
If you and your friends so enjoy it, I have an obligation to invite you and your friends as well, the next time I have a vacancy, (then you can invite me when you have a white collar job for me).
Let me know what brand of the paint do you prefer and what's your favorite dressing. The footer sub's are waiting and when the job is done, you can enjoy taking pictures of the sunset. They are the best on the West Coast!
I luve communies! [ Edited by omega1 on Date 01/26/2004 ]
Hi pinkflamingo,
Your last post makes a lot more sense.
In reality your aren't getting your friends to work for you for a sub and a cheap buffet dinner. You are involved in a barter system or a 'you scratch my back and I'll scratch your back' system.
If your first post was accurate then there would be no back-lash if your friends called you up to repay the favor and you told them no. That isn't the case as you were able to clarify in your second post. Getting your house painted is costing you a lot more than $200. It is costing you whatever the favor in return is going to be.
I'm not picking on you, but those types of off the cuff, quick off the tongue replies such as your first one are indicative of the frustrations that a lot of newbies here have basing their practices off of inaccurate information and responses such as that one that would lead a newbie with no common sense to think they should be able to get a house painted for the commitment of a sub way sub and a cheap buffet dinner without realizing that in reality the additional costs are the commitment of their time to another project in return to the friend.[ Edited by The-Rehabinator on Date 01/26/2004 ]
Wasnt trying to mislead anyone, just trying to provide an alternative to just laying out a big chunk of cash. Usually people acquiring a first rental (at least those I've known) are trying cut costs as much as possible. Yes I would "expect" people to feel as I do and owe a "debt" of my time in return at some point in the future. I often fail to remember that there are people in this world who dont want to do that, but that's how I was raised. As for the cost of my time in repayment, yes my time is very valuable, but so are my friends, and to me helping them out is a small price to pay. I apologize if anyone took my initial post as nothing more than slave labor. That was definately not the intention.
Reading all of your answers got me more confused. I have always used sears semi gloss on all my rentals, That paint never goes out of style, nor will it be discontinued.
Lori
P.S. I buy a lot when it is on sale and keep it in one of my warehouses.
[addsig]
"You never want to paint over oil base paint with latex as it will not last very long etc. "
Incorect!
You can paint with latex but you have to primer it.
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"real estate investor since 1988. I like to find creative solutions for my real estate headaches before they become problems. Most importantly, MOVEMENT DOES NOT EQUAL PRODUCTIVITY"
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Nice long and thoughtful signature tinman1755, and I just wonder if you managed to put it together alone because I really like to learn how your RE headaches are not the problem (for you)? Any special technique or just couple of Advils?