Newbie Wholesaling In Pennsylvania
Hi there- was wondering if there are any other REI in Pa. that are successful in wholesaling. Am looking for some words of wisdom - also are there specific laws in Pa. I need to be aware of?
Thanks!
Moneywyse 
What kind of wisdom? What do you plan to do?
Lori
[addsig]
What all types of info are you looking for?
Yes there are laws in PA - not to scary though! PA has a great market if you know where to look!
What area of Pa are you looking in?
I am interested in PA market too. Tinman, can you help us newbies make couple of dimes?
if you're speaking of seasoning issues, you should worry about particular lenders, not so much state regulations or laws. if you're wholesaling to cash buyers, then you have nothing to worry about - no lender involved.
i'd run an ad in the paper and call all the "we buy homes" ads/signs to find who has cash and wants to buy homes. once you do, find thier area of focus and what they're looking for in those areas and get moving. don't find someone who has cash to buy and not get something in front of them quick!
pa is good for everything. expensive stuff here, very cheap stuff here too.
Thats good to hear Jackman!! I am trying to wholesale hear in western PA, north of PIttsburgh. Alot of older homes here in need of repair.
I just need to get moving....too much talking!!
Good luck all
Chris G
Hi everyone-
Thanks for all your replys. I am in Bucks cnty- 45 min from philly. Am looking to get into wholesaling. Will be taking a trip to the courthouse soon to look up lis pendens and send some letters out and poss put an ad in the paper
Moneywyse
moneywise, bucks county is hot right now! i'd drive around a bit and look for abandoned or vacant properties and shoot for those. perfect would be the 1 empty home on a street - get that one. all the neighbors would love you (help thier prop value out). if you want to wholesale, call me if you run into anything good.
sharp_rei, i know where new castle is (lived in pittsburgh for a while). you can get a lot of home out there for little cash. you should do great there!
ok Jackman - I just might do that. Got some hot leads and expect to be making money real soon!!
pm me your number
Ellen (Moneywyse)
Tinman:
Are you working on 35-40 loans?
Or are you actually finding deals, having
a signed contract in hand and then "assigning" to other investors for a
fee.
I think his question was in terms of
"Wholesaling" properties. Wholesaling properties is not when a loan agent
shows a house that is for sale and then does the loan for the buyer for a commission.
Best Riches,
Jeffrey Adam
[addsig]
Actually I am a partner. We are buying old houses in New castle for $7K-12K that need very little work. It is my cash so I guess I'm more involved than usual. But I couldn't help it. My retirement is coming fast!!! I now have exactly 5 years and 364 days left before I retire to the Caymans.
Anyway I have a friend who asked me to become involved because the money was short.
I will still get the buyers approved and decide which ones get which house. I just won't be able to do the loans.
(conflict of interest)
Lori
[addsig]
Hi
Nice to see some others from Pa. Keep us informed Ellen, and best of luck.
As far as I know there is a few rules you need to be aware of in Pa. One is the transfer tax. Like all of the states Pa is in need of taxes, and they enforce it. This doesnt apply unless you buy or get the deed. Just be aware of it. Also I havent found 'Lis Pendens' to be available. My local 'legal reported' doesnt carry it. Im not sure if they can report it, in this state.
The foreclosures are listed and thru some work the names CAN be found.
Best of luck, keep us informed
Joe
Tinman:
So you are buying the properties with a partner, taking title in a trust to avoid seasoning issues like you have posted
a week ago and then immediately flipping to end-users? This is commonly known as "Retailing."
How do you avoid the "seasoning" issue
from a lenders standpoint? You have stated in your previous post that you keep the owners on the trust paperwork to avoid the "seasoning" issues when you go to resell. How are you structuring this? If this is working for you, maybe we could all benefit from it?
Best Riches,
Jeffrey Adam
_________________
"The only place success comes before work
is in the dictionary."
[ Edited by JeffreyAdam on Date 03/17/2004 ]
[ Edited by JeffreyAdam on Date 03/17/2004 ][ Edited by JeffreyAdam on Date 03/17/2004 ]
For a better understanding of what
Tinman is talking about, check this article out written by Lufos.
http://www.thecreativeinvestor.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=526&mode=nested#2409
Best Riches,
Jeffrey Adam
[addsig]
Jeffrey,
I read the article and I was shocked with what Lufos managed to dig out and revile. I mean that's federal crime what did describ and I relly wonder how could Nancy Chadwick miss what seems so obvious?
Why didn't they ask Lucius to do a good job investigating that mortgage broker form PA. He is more qualified. You figure what's true but here is what Lucius sad in his article:
"Now the Broker, who is also a Mortgage Broker, then arranges a sale to a new buyer. . Not at what the Broker er excuse me Trust paid for it but at this crazy supported high market price at which price it went into foreclosure. So it is sold for $47,000. Broker makes a commission and of course arranges the financing based on prior sale before foreclosure. Broker gives a little help to the new buyer, arranges to cover costs of all fees etc. Buyer gets property probably with no money down. The Trust helps with costs and it is a winner. Broker oops Trust bought at $11,300 sold for $47,000 looks great. Right? The Buyer got in at nothing down. Win/win for everybody well everybody but the taxpayer."
Am I having problem understanding or Lucius really talks about the pure scam formula over here? If she really did that, FBI should be involved and I intend to let them look at this whole chain of events even if this post got delited to protect Tinman. I mean that's our taxpayer money we are talking about here. Crooks should be in jail. Money that would otherwise go to schools and hospitals are being taken and we can't sit still. :evil: [ Edited by CREIPAP on Date 03/18/2004 ]
WOW....I guess I really wasn't understanding what was going on here. I first read CREIPAP post and then went back and read Lucius article. That really is not the kind of CREI i want to be involved with :-? :-?
Chris G
SharpREI:
Here in my area this was a common practice that was going on for quite some time up until last year. They were doing the same thing. What happened is
HUD came in and did a big investigation and found out that the buyers were not putting any down payment which is a Federal Crime by the seller as HUD makes the seller sign a form stating they are not giving the buyer any money for the down payment. If you go thru a government program such as HART or
NEHEMIAH then that is a different story.
HUD wants all buyers to come in with at
least 3% because of exactly this. The buyers who know nothing about real-estate purchase a house over market value that they cannot afford. When they have some financial troubles, its easy for them to walk away. Get my point.
The appraisers, sellers, realtors and
mortgage brokers were all on the take.
They would sell houses to first time buyers with no down payment, fake tax returns and give them a super duper high interest rate. Guess what happened, when HUD started taking back all these houses, they finally
figured out the game that was being played. Several realtors, appraisers
mortgage brokers and investors are all in court now! I know of one guy who had to pay a 3 million dollar fine and received
4 years in prison for giving the down payment away on over 100 deals!
I know of mortgage companies that were shut down for predatory lending practices and submitting false documentation, appraisers that lost their license.
My point is if you are going to play this game, you need to play by the rules.
Best Riches,
Jeffrey Adam
_________________
"The only place success comes before work
is in the dictionary."[ Edited by JeffreyAdam on Date 03/18/2004 ]
Jeff,
I very rarely structure anything that is delicate. I have an attorney do that. I would rather pay an expert than leave a clause out. Short cuts have always cost me money.
I structure the loans so the houses can be sold. My field of expertise is in financing. I have been in the field since 1987. I have always used real estate as a means for my retirement and for assets.
I have access to thousands of programs, It is my job to make things happen, not make excuses.
Your comment above is correct there are many people who do the wrong things. I do not believe in altered or fake documents. I do not believe in allowing people to buy homes they can not afford. I have posted several times that banks are in the lending institution not the selling institution. There are many foreclosures that happened in Pa. not because of people buying houses but because of the Home Improvement scams. They are the ones that caused most of the problems in several cities in Pa.
Even the house I bought in January was foreclosed upon because of a Home Improvement Loan. The owners were in their 60's and a contractor gave them a stated home improvement loan. They could not afford the payments. The windows, doors, downspouts, faccia, and roof are of good quality. But that caused a family to lose their home.
Is this my fault, no. All I did was see a house on the HUD website and bid on it.
There are good people and there are bad people in every type of job. I would not be able to go up to someone in foreclosure and ask them to buy their house. I don't have what it takes to do that. I see alot of people on this website can.
I don't see the difference between selling a house for $60,000.00 two months after it is fixed or 12 months. The house is still worth $60,00.00. You just get you money sooner.
The banks have thousands of programs everyone on this site seems to only know one FHA. There are programs that allow 100%,103%, and 107% purchases. There are rehabb loans that go up to 90% of the ARV. There are banks that actually allow you to bring CASH, yes CASH, Green backs, stacks of 100's to the closing.(NO Questions asked). They even have a loan called "The Drug Dealer's Dream Loan"
When people don't understand the first thing they say is "IT'S ILLEGAL" "FRAUD" "SCAM"
Pa is a Commonwealth, they protect the consumer first. That is why The Attorney General and the Dept Of Banking investigate all complaints, you can file a complaint on-line
Lori
_________________
real estate investor since 1988. I like to find creative solutions for my real estate headaches before they become problems. Most importantly, MOVEMENT DOES NOT EQUAL PRODUCTIVITY[ Edited by tinman1755 on Date 03/18/2004 ]
Lori:
You are dancing around my question?
Answer the following question:
-Are you buying houses from HUD and
putting them into a trust to avoid "seasoning" issues and are the 35-40 deals you are working on loans or are they houses you are "Wholesaling"
meaning you are finding the houses,
collecting a fee from your clients and
then "assigning"?
You have stated in numerous post that
there is no such thing as "seasoning" and
you have also stated recently that you dont have to worry about "seasoning"
because you put the properties into a trust with the owner on the trust paperwork. This is very innovative and
I do not believe this is correct. If you
put a house into a trust with even with the owner on the trust paperwork, the
title company is still going to pick up that it is a "flip" due to the new loan amount on the Deed Of Trust. The only way this could possibly work would be if you did a deal "subject to" and had the owner assign their beneficial interest. However you dont do deals like this as you have posted from day one you buy all your deals from http://www.foreclosure.com.
So tell us how you keep HUD on the trust paperwork and avoid "seasoning".
Best Riches,
Jeffrey Adam
_________________
"The only place success comes before work
is in the dictionary."[ Edited by JeffreyAdam on Date 03/18/2004 ]
Quote:
On 2004-03-18 13:58, CREIPAP wrote:
I read the article and I was shocked with what Lufos managed to dig out and revile. I mean that's federal crime what did describ and I relly wonder how could Nancy Chadwick miss what seems so obvious?
CREIPAP,
As JohnLocke can confirm, and as pages 7 & 8 of the "40% FMV or Less" Forum topic clearly reveal, what JohnLocke asked me to do was look at the facts and present my findings on 2 issues:
1. did tinman1755 wholesale 15-20 deals per month; and
2. did tinman1755 purchase properties at 40% FMV or less.
These were the only 2 issues that I was asked to prepare findings on, and these were the only 2 issues that I prepared findings on.
I suggest you read all 12 pages of the postings on the "40% FMV or Less" topic. Here's the URL:
http://www.thecreativeinvestor.com/ViewTopic22411-18-144.html
Jeff,
I have never bought a house from Hud in A trust!!!!!!!!!!!! I never stated that I did. I buy my houses and if I am going to keep them I put them in a Trust.
I stated I am a partner in these deals. Which means they are all bought for with cash. These were a "wholesale deal" All properties are being sold together for one price for all. some are in move in condition some need to be torn down.
I specifically said I WAS NOT DOING THE LOANS that would be a conflict of interest.
We do intend to sell some, rent some, and some will have to be torn down.
As far as the fee goes We are not that far. I do not need to hurry this project. I want to take this slow and look at all of the options. I have a primary income, real estate is just a retirement fund to me.
Jeff, Jeff,Jeff
I have been in financing since June of 1987. I graduated from college in May of 1987. What I read on this board from you and others who read articles in the paper or hear from other people are truly amazing. I must take a number of hour classes each year for each state that I do business in.
You and others are always stating "SEASONING REQUIREMENTS" It is called GUIDELINES. A guideline is"an outlineor indication of policy or conduct". It does not say "LAW" "THE ONLY WAY" it says "an outline or indication" If you are having problems with "seasoning" than you do not have the proper documentation.
I stated I have been involved in situations like that where a trust was used. The trust with the former owner and current owner is a way to get around seaoning issues. I am telling you it can be done 100%. NO, I can not show you how, who, or what the form looks like.
You should read the post in this section that says"Using Trusts to Whlosale"
The title company will pick it up and should pick it up. I am confused about this part of your question. What you are talking about is called a chain of title. You must remember I use terms from a Banks point of view. That is what I'm trained to do.
Lori
_________________
real estate investor since 1988. I like to find creative solutions for my real estate headaches before they become problems. Most importantly, MOVEMENT DOES NOT EQUAL PRODUCTIVITY
[ Edited by tinman1755 on Date 03/19/2004 ][ Edited by tinman1755 on Date 03/19/2004 ]
Lori:
After doing over 300 real-estate transactions over the past 10 years I find your post very amusing. You have no idea of what the term "Wholesaling" means. Nor have you ever "Wholesaled"
a real-estate deal in your life! In my post
I speak strictly from experience, over
$100k in education, not from some books in the library as you have stated you have received your education from.
"Wholesaling" is not when you find a buyer for a property and do the loan!
"Wholesaling" is when you find a property, "assign" for a fee or close in your name and immediately flip to another investor for a fee.
You have stated several times that you
purchase properties using trust to get around the seasoning issue and leaving the original seller in the trust paperwork.
What you are saying makes no sense!
Any title company would pick up that the
property has changed hands just by looking at the Deed Of Trust. The only way this would possibly work would be if you took a property over "Subject To",
put it into a trust and sold it. However, we all know you buy the majority of your deals from HUD. So you are buying houses, keeping HUD on the trust paperwork and reselling to avoid seasoning. I dont think so!
You have also stated that the Trustee of a trust has the power to change who the
Beneficiary is at any time? GIve me a break Lori? Another Tinmanism.
I still am confused why you try to give people advice on "Wholesaling" when you have never wholesaled a deal in your life.
In terms of lenders not having
"seasoning" requirements, it surprises
me that you would say that being in the
business that you are in. I just recently had a deal that the bank kicked back because the thought it was a "flip" even after I submitted pictures of before and after and receipts.
Best Riches,
Jeffrey Adam
[addsig]
Com on Jeff, let the dynamic duo from PA win this one! Nancy and Lori. I love it. It's so rarely spectacular for one to see a good teamwork and teammates in neck to neck action, truly caring for each other. Keep up the good work girls and keep making money. I am all on your side. Jeff, you can try to explain her all you can but as it looks to me, Lori will not back up. So please agree to disagree and let nice lady NancyChadwicky close this post too.
[addsig]
Ladies and Gentleman:
Life is too short to argue all the time. It's Friday, have fun and learn.
If you think a poster is full of s**t then email your case to a moderator.
Mike