Need Decision Help With Eviction Please!
One of our tenants has been gone since at least April. He hasn't paid since February. Problem is he left everything with no appearance of abandonment, and he is an attorney.
We filed for an eviction and won our case. He didn't even show up. We gave notice to change locks, changed them, posted contact info in case he wanted in. He's never requested to get in.
We've spent on the eviction. By Wednesday he must be out according to the judge. Now what do we do?
Do I really have to pay the constable another $135 to force the guy out with his belongings, when there is no guy to force out!
On Wednesday the unit is to be vacated according to the eviction judge. But what do we do if all of the tenant's belongings are still there?
The choices are to remove everything and trash/donate/sell it. Remove everything and store it for 30 days. Or pay the constable to watch us remove everything.
I really don't want to have to shell out another $135... those of you who have been through this please advise!
This isn't a serious question is it? The law is clear, if a person comes into possession of a space legally there are only two ways to end the possession. They can voluntarily leave the space or you can evict them. The eviction is not complete until the sherif/constable says that the space is correctly vacated.
Given that the tenant in this case is an attorney you can bet he knows this law. Follow it otherwise you become liable for both criminal and civil penalties. Besides, you're going to add the fee to the amount due you on the judgement. This is going to float about on his credit report forever. My guess is eventually you will collect.
Yes it was a serious question...there is no tenant present to evict. He has completely abandoned his stuff.
But assuming you are right...what next? The sherriff comes, what do we do with the guy's stuff, if we place it on the curb it's going to make the whole complex look trashy.
It sounds like what you are saying is the constable somehow completes the eviction.
Sounds to me like the guy is dead or in a crack house in Tijuana. You'll prolly want to call the constable or courthouse and ask them if the constable being there is necessary and ask them what the best thing to do with his stuff is.
As for making the area look by by curbing his belongings, put it out the night before garbage collection and no one will see it but the sanitation workers!
What if it is good sellable stuff? New copier/fax/printer still in box, bedroom furniture etc.
Calling the constable's office is a good idea
Calling your attorney to ask what your landlord tenant law says on the matter is a better idea. What does your lease say on the subject?
Is the disposition of abandoned personal property even mentioned in your lease? If not, then suggest you store the stuff until you get clear direction from your attorney.
I have gone through many evictions in WA state. Check the landlord/tenant laws to get the exact rules for your state.
This is what happens in WA. The guy does not pay rent. You go to the house and realize he is nowhere to be found...perhaps gone, maybe not. You begin an eviction., paying attention to the house for signs of life. Are the lights on at night indicating someone is home? Is smoke coming out of the chimney? Tire tracks? Anything you can find that is different from the last time you were out. Did you post a notice on the door that got removed or perhaps is still hanging?
ok...now, if you have established that he is gone - he has abandoned the house and his possessions. Don't get caught up in the fact that he is an attorney. You have done everything right so far.
In WA you can remove his stuff IF you believe that it has truly been abandoned. Also, if you move the stuff...you need to store it if it is worth over $50-for 45 days. Send the tenant a notice certified return reciept letting him know that you have been storing it for 45 days ( you can store it in the rental unit- change the locks or rent a storage unit and charge him the fee...he probably wont pay) and that you intend on disposing of it as you see fit on day 46. You may dispose of it in a week if it is worth less than that (trash). As I stated earlier....check the landlord/ tenant act in your state. YOu do not need a sherriff to stand by. You are within your rights. Take pictures of the house the way it was left and take pictures of it stored, if you move it.
You have a right to rerent the home if he abandoned it. Therefore, you need to move his belongings. It will stand up in court.
PM me if you have any other questions...good luck!
I think we are going to go ahead and use the constable. There was one sign of life a week ago, someone took the eviction notice off the door. My property manager reminded me of that.
That, and everything you guys have said has me convinced to play this one safe. Question: if I use the constable, and remove the items to a secure location for 30 days, will that be complete due diligence? Can the secure location be the garage of his unit? Or does it have to be off premises?
Thanks everyone!
You can store the stuff anywhere you choose to. Make sure they do not have the key.
Is the stuff left behind valuable? Have you tried to find out whether the utilities were turned off? If not, follow this through and be glad. In Germany, an eviction takes 2 years and the last step alone costs thousands! A moving company needs to be hired, storage arranged... All for a tenant who hasn't paid one $ in 2 years! ** There is a new book on how to collect on a judgement.
Utilities are turned off, yes the things left behind are valuable. We'd like to sell them if possible.
We discovered yesterday that the tenant, who is an attorney, apparently has a warrant out for his arrest, or was arrested but is no longer in custody. How should that affect our approach?
The saga continues...or ends...depending on how you look at it.
I followed everyone's advice to a degree. We followed everything to the letter of the law, filed for the writ of possession. The constable came out and witnessed us carry everything to the street. At this point it had been three months since deadbeat attorney has paid any rent.
I slept well Wednesday night thinking the nightmare was finally over.
Guess who called first thing the very next morning? Deadbeat attorney. Wants all of his stuff back. Says he's just been "out of town".
Is it possible he staged all of this to get an excuse to sue us? Am I just being paranoid?
The constable advised us to set everything out. We did, then when he (constable) left we donated some stuff to charity, hauled some to the dump, left as much as we could in the trash bins.
The ex-tenant is hopping mad, wants his stuff back. I'm scared to death this isn't over, he's going to sue or something.
What recourse does he have? Or is this really over? How long does he have to take action against us?
I am not an attorney , but here is my common sense two cents worth on this one. Of course anybody can sue anybody for almost any reason, but you have been likely following procedure that sounds very reasonable and conforming to the eviction procedures in your area.
It was certainly his responsibility to continue paying rent even though he went out of town for an extended period of time. In CA we can issue 3 day notices for non-payment or some other breaches that can be remedied. You must have gone through this or something similar in your state.
It seems to me that you are standing on safe ground assuming that you adhered to the law regarding disposal of his possessions.
Unless he's been in a witness protection program, on the international space station, or been doing a Rip van Winkle under a tree somewhere, he has no excuse for not paying his rent. If he knew he was going out of town, he could have paid in advance. If he couldn't pay in advance he could have called you or sent you a letter, or done something to let you know that he had not abandoned things. He didn't do any of those things. So, in accordance with the law, you carried out a perfectly legal and proper eviction, at additional expense to you. As has been said, anyone can file suit on anyone. But as long as you've followed the law, you are safe. Make sure you speak with your attorney just in case, but also ask him about the possibility of filing a counter-claim against this looser for all the unpaid rent, eviction charges, and related legal feel.
Good luck.
PS - I'm also not a lawyer. Just speaking from the standpoint of logic and what I've heard in discussions with my attorney.[ Edited by alexlev on Date 05/21/2004 ]
So many years ago I took over a company that had a bunch of units (around 500) the place was a mess, the last three or four years had been a string of one incompetent manager after another. So there are LOTS of deliquent tenants among a lot of other problems so I say, "serve 'em all, we'll sort it out later".
So we get this hot-shot pre-law student who comes swaggering into the office to tell me that he's figured out that the apartment he's living in is an illegal basement apartment and he figures I won't evict him because if I do then the apartment will be unrentable.
So eviction day comes (leaving out a bit of the story) and the sherrif shows up with his moving crew (four very large black guys that look like they just got out of the state pen). We nock on the door, no answer. We start to break the door down. Voices from inside, "What are you doing/"
" I'm sherrif so-and-so and I'm here to evict you."
Very frazzled kid answers the door looking like he'd had way too much party last night. "You can't evict me, I'm not the tenant he's not home. If you evict his stuff he'll think I did something wrong."
"Thanks kid," says the sherrif "now we don't have to break this nice landlords door down" and waives to the moving crew which swings into action. Frazzled kid jumps in a ford Pinto and drives off into the sunrise.
About an hour goes by and Mr. Pre-law comes running down the street (apparently frazzled had found him and told him what was up)
"What are you doing? You can't throw my stuff
out on the street!!!!!)
BIG, fat sherrif turns slowly toward approaching college kid. Bends over and unbuckles the flap on his holster. Makes sure gun is loose in holster. Stands with hand on the but of the gun.
"The hell I CAN'T. I've got a court order here that says I MUST" College kid very quickly changes attitude and becomes very civil.
The point is that the correct response to your tenant is "I don't know what happened to your stuff. My suggestion is that you call the sherrif's office and ask them. They are the ones who threw it on the street."
Never talk to an angry man when you can just refer him to a guy with a gun.
Now you know why you had the constible do the eviction rather than storing the stuff for him.[ Edited by commercialking on Date 05/21/2004 ]
As to selling or otherwise disposing of a person's stuff.
The key is what does the state law provide? It is technical their stuff in most cases.
In OR you can not dispose of it right after moving it out. You need to hold it and go through a process of disposal. Otherwise you need to write a check to pay the person back for the stuff.
John
[addsig]
In our state I the landlord can not take any of the goods, they must be left at the street for 10 days, BUT.... If someone(lets say a friend) drives by it is free to all. If that someone(a friend) decides to give me the Sony TV and his pool table that is legal. I know someone who does move outs for cheap just so they can pick up whats left. Check state law..
Best to you,
Sire
I'd avoid talking with him at all. You don't want to say the wrong thing. Simply refer him to your attorney. Awful convenient timing that he came back to town just in time to find his belongs gone.
In Texas, the writ of possession orders the officer executing the writ to: place, or have an authorized person place, the removed personal property outside the rental unit at a nearby location, but not blocking a public sidewalk, passageway, or street and not while it is raining, sleeting, or snowing.Additionally,The writ of possession shall authorize the officer, at the officer's discretion, to engage the services of a bonded or insured warehouseman to remove and store, subject to applicable law, part or all of the property at no cost to the landlord or the officer executing the writ.
The officer may not require the landlord to store the property.
The writ of possession shall contain notice to the officer that under Section 7.003, Civil Practice and Remedies Code, the officer is not liable for damages resulting from the execution of the writ if the officer executes the writ in good faith and with reasonable diligence.
If you have followed all the instructions given by the officer serving the writ, you are on safe ground. Have your attorney answer any complaint you receive from your former tenant. If the tenant calls, tell him that your attorney has instructed you not to discuss the matter, but instead, to direct all communications to him.
Isn't there some sort of law or something that says something protecting the owner and that you, the landlord/owner, had to sell the possessions of the rentor, to get back money lost by the renter not paying rent?
Did you not have any other contact numbers for the tenant? His employer or closest relative? How hard do you have to try to contact him before you can kick him out and get rid of his stuff?
Please keep us posted... I am in Texas and this helps everyone.
I don't know how hard you're legally obligated to try and contact the tenant...but we did try hard. Spent hours on the internet finding every possible phone number for the guy, every number from his loan application etc.
I still don't know if the x-tenant has filed for a wrongful eviction or not. He said he was going to, but we can't imagine what grounds he thinks he has...
What everyone has posted here has helped so much, especially the post that lists Tx law verbatum. That was quite an encouragement.
I don't think you should worry about it at all. It seems like you did everything right. Your tenant did not pay since February. No excuse! He was out of town? So what? He could still have sent a rent check every month from any where even from out of country.
Great thread. This is all good stuff to hear about. I especially like the Texas law quote and commercialKings story.
Thanks,
Robert
[addsig]
Commercialking is wise beyond his years.
I have a friend who didn't follow the eviction laws with one tenant and it cost him a little better than $60k in legal fees and fines. You want to save a few bucks evicting an attorney? That will be the second mistake (the first was renting to an attorney).
Lastly, you need to see an attorney to get absolute instructions on the proper, legal disposition of this guy's abandoned personal property.
I don't know the laws of your state as all of my landlord experiece is in California.
Here, I am very careful to follow all of the landlord laws to the letter. As an added precaution, I video tape the evicition and all of the contents of the home after the eviction.
In some cases, the landlord is required to store the "stuff" for a period of time and notify the owner at their last known address.
If I have to store the stuff, I inventory it all and video tape it being moved and I also video tape it at it's new location. I am sure to video tape the current days newspaper to show when the video was made.
I ask the sheriff that does the eviction for their card and Thank them for a job well done.
When I was had units in a rural area, I always contributed to the shefiff's election campain. It could never hurt and may help some day.
I would never communicate verbally with the renter after I started the eviction. If they contacted me by phone, I always told them to contact my attorney.
I kept good records of everything I did on an eviction and filed the judgement with the county recorder just in case the people tried to buy real estate in the county some time in the future.
I went to all my evictions and only once did a tenant tell the sheriff that he was not leaving. The sheriff called for backup and 4 of the biggest deputies came. The sheriff told the tenant that he was wasting his time and he either left NOW or he was going to get free room and board paid for by the county. The tenant thought that might be a good deal until he realized what the sheriff meant.
BOB FORD
**Please See My Profile**
I have done one eviction in L.I. New York. It was not pleasant. My advice is pay the sheriff or constable. Once the property hits the curb, its garbage. Take want you want to sell. i would also take pictures of the eviction incase you need them in the future. Keep all legal docs, and go by the book. :-(