Mold. What're The Removal Regulations?
Hi,
Ok, mold. Yep, mold. Are the federal regulations that I'd need to follow to remove it, or does it differ from state to state or even county to county?
I'm just wondering, 'cause there are plenty of properties with water damage, and no one touches them.
Have I found the royal mother-load or just a royal pain in the -well you know.
Thanks,
OnTheWater 
Same question....
I feel like even if you get rid of the mold and the county agrees you are still open to law suits at a later time from tenants and owners.
Mike
Sash, if you don't disclose to the buyers then you are vulnerable to a lawsuit.
Basically mold is removed by killing it with ozone. I sell products that do this very effectively. However, there is still liability about the mold. By having a contractor doing the work, you have someone falling back to, although you are potentially still responsible.
If the problem isn't too bad I'd recommend to buy an ozone unit like I sell and use it. If it is serious I would consult an attorney and probably hire it out professionally.
This isn't advertising...I can not sell you these units per TCI regulations so don't ask.
The-Rehabinator
Yea I know but, I've heard of people being sued even though they disclosed past mold issues.
MIke
Guys, guys, guys;
Mold is a joke created by tort lawyers bilking $ from the insurance co.'s. That's it.
Mold is caused by moisture, remove the source of moisture, scrape off the mold and get on with your life. Mold has been around for, hmmm - let me think, BILLIONS of years.
It's regarded as a mere nuisance now and subject to "frivolous lawsuit" citations everywhere except NY and Ca. where anyone can sue anyone for any thing.
Clean up the wet spot!
XO
C-
Here's a thought.
How to Make Money With Mold!
Scrap It off and send it to Pharmaceutical companies,
They'll make Penicillan!
I'll bet I could send the same mold to 3-30 labs, and get a different opinion from every one as to its toxicity, bad qualities, etc...
But if you first put the prop into anto an LLC, then remove what you can, then paint over the rest of it, then FULLY disclose and get , signed waivers from all buyers or tenants, you've done about as much as needed.
Sure, anytody can sue for anthjing, but if they're suing an LLC that has all the waivers and disclaimers signed by any & all buyers or tenants, you're not going to get in any really hot water.
Mold may be a joke to some of us, but it is deadly serious when it comes to real estate transactions. I too believe it is the asbestos of our age, but it is here to stay and you have to deal with it.
Mold disclosure is legislated at the state level. Mold remediation is on the federal level with the EPA. They base cleaning techniques on square footage of contamination under 10sq feet, 10-100 sq feet and over 100 sq feet. Anything over 10 sq they want you to consult U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) guide: Mold Remediation in Schools and Commercial Buildings. Even if it is a residential building.
Most of us will be involved with dry wall:
Less than 10 sq feet - (1) High-efficiency particulate air (HEPA) vacuum after the material has been thoroughly dried. Dispose of the contents of the HEPA vacuum in well-sealed plastic bags.
greater than 10 sq feet: all of (1) plus Discard _ remove water-damaged materials and seal in plastic bags while inside of containment, if present. Dispose of as normal waste. HEPA vacuum area after it is dried.
A disclosure is a disclosure is a disclosure, if you disclose you are protected. That is what a disclosure is for, it protects the buyer from buying something he is unaware of and it protects the seller from coming back and suing them later.
In it's simplest form:
Buyer "Is there or has there ever been any mold in this house?"
Seller: "Yes. Do you still want to buy it?"
Buyer :"Yes"
The mold disclosure form is going to be as common as the lead paint disclosure form and work the same way.[ Edited by The-Rehabinator on Date 11/27/2003 ]
Thanks for the replies. Now all I have to do is convince my wife that we may want to consider this...
We just started a foreclosure rehab that we'll put on the market in March, so I don't think that she'll be too happy about tackling a mold rehab; you never know though.
I'll copy all this info to notepad and keep it so when the buying-a-mold-bug bites again, I'll have more direction.
Thanks,
OnTheWater
Quote:
On 2003-11-26 17:34, cpifer wrote:
Guys, guys, guys;
Mold is a joke created by tort lawyers bilking $ from the insurance co.'s. That's it.
Mold is caused by moisture, remove the source of moisture, scrape off the mold and get on with your life. Mold has been around for, hmmm - let me think, BILLIONS of years.
It's regarded as a mere nuisance now and subject to "frivolous lawsuit" citations everywhere except NY and Ca. where anyone can sue anyone for any thing.
Clean up the wet spot!
XO
C- <IMG SRC="images/forum/smilies/icon_eek.gif">
EXACTLY
Show me a 10 year old or older house in the North East US that NEVER had mold in the basement and I will show you a house built on a concrete pad.
ok, what about prices? There is mold. how easy/expensive is to clean it?
thanks
Quote:
On 2003-12-01 11:36, bernel77 wrote:
ok, what about prices? There is mold. how easy/expensive is to clean it?
thanks
Well that depends where it is and how extensive.
You aren't going to find a fixed price, this is very new.
New mold remediation companies are popping up like pimples. There is no regulation or licensing, so it is the wild west all over again.
If you do it yourself it could be as cheap as how much a gallon of bleach costs and some drywall and fresh paint, or you could have the men in white protective suits and respirators come in. (Think asbestos removal, and costs)
mo;d is usually spot specific meaning that there are areas and they tend to be small that have visible mold. Frequently I remove the sheetrock in that area and replace and repaint. Bleach only kills the surface mold.
I always paint with"kills" oil based primer as mold doesn't like it and it covers well.
I would suggest an ozone machine. They can be expensive but we did a mold workover on a house and the machine was $200 a day with the hepa filters.
Mold is not a real problem in most cases. I don't know how your state is but special certification is not required in "mold removal" in the three states I have worked in over the last couple of years.
Call in another contractor or several and see what they think. I would hold property in an entity that would limit your risk should something untoward happen in the future. Even then I have yet to see an individual that has been sued for "mold" what we are seeing is law suits directed towards "deep pockets" namely insurance and bonding companies.
The real deal here is "why is there mold growing ?" Generally it is poor ventilation which causes moisture and thus the build up of mold. Newer houses that are "airtight" frequently are the ones with the problem in Florida and California. I personally have remediated problems mainly in the "good cents" type of manufactured housing. Schools and large buildings don't seem to have the problems unless there is a water problem like leaky pipes or roofs that transfer water into walls and ceilings.
I would say mold is often a good opportunity! Let the others be scared. Obviously it hasn't affected many owners ability to rent. And I have yet to see a homeowner running for their lives!
Second, stay very wary of home inspectors. These are guys that charge an inordinate amount of money that they justify by finding problems on your property. They must find problems to justify their jobs.
In the event of mold the seller might be more flexible, even do a "subject to" deal etc.
This may or may not apply to your state, I include it for general information.
I pulled this from: http://www.cga.state.ct.us/2003/olrdata/env/rpt/2003-R-0624.htm
The National Conference of State Legislatures (NCSL) reports that six other states (California, Montana, New Jersey, Oklahoma, Tennessee and Texas) have enacted mold legislation. Another 38 bills were not enacted or were pending in 12 other states this summer (see attached lists).
This legislation focuses primarily on (1) gathering information about mold and its hazards; (2) establishing exposure standards; (3) regulating mold inspectors and remediation specialists; and (4) requiring realtors, landlords, and homeowners to disclose the presence of mold when selling property. We have attached summaries of this legislation compiled by NCSL and the National Association of Mutual Insurance Companies (NAMIC) (Legislation - Mold Bills).
On the federal level, U. S. Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) has introduced "The Toxic Mold and Safety and Protection Act of 2003" (H. R. 1268). It would direct the U. S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the Centers for Disease Control to study the health effects of indoor mold growth, direct the Secretary of Housing and Urban Development to establish inspection requirements for existing housing and construction standards for new housing, authorize EPA grants to remove mold in public buildings, create a toxic mold insurance program, and provide Medicaid coverage to mold victims unable to secure adequate health care.
Here is the part that is most likely pertinent to you.
We could not find any laws specifically referring to mold remediation. However, plaintiffs may sue for damages resulting from exposure to mold under several legal theories, such as negligence and breach of contract.
Law journal articles estimate that there were about 10,000 mold cases nationwide in 2002, with the number expected to increase, particularly in states where the climate and construction of air-tight buildings are conducive to mold growth, such as Texas, California, and Florida. Claims were based on such grounds as personal injury, construction defects, bad faith, negligence, and failure to disclose. The largest verdict was apparently $ 32 million in the Texas case of Ballard v. Fire Insurance Exchange. (An appeals court later reduced that verdict to about $ 4 million in actual damages. )
Attorneys Cameron Kerry and Deborah Johnson write in "The Growing Problem of Mold," in the September 2002 issue of Metropolitan Corporate Counsel that while there are "strongly suggestive case reports and animal studies," there are not many comprehensive studies of the dangers of mold. The authors write that (1) there is some association between the presence of mold in homes and a number of respiratory symptoms, particularly among sensitive individuals, but that the symptoms may also be associated with other factors; (2) the relationship between levels of exposure and illness is uncertain; and (3) the burden of mold-related illness on the general population is unclear.
California's law, the Toxic Mold Protection Act of 2001(California Health and Safety Code, § 26100 et seq. ) directs the state department of health services to determine the feasibility of adopting permissible exposure limits for indoor mold and develop standards for assessing the health threat it poses. It requires landlords and sellers of residential and commercial property to disclose in writing the presence or prior existence of mold. The disclosure requirements take effect after the state adopts standards and develops guidelines concerning toxic mold exposure limits and remediation.
The Montana law requires sellers of property, landlords and others to disclose the presence of mold if they know of such a problem. They may do so on at least one document executed before or at the time an offer is made to buy, rent or lease habitable property (HB 536).
The New Jersey resolution urges the state to develop ways to help residents identify a particular mold and develop strategies to address it. The resolution urges the commissioners of health and senior services and of community affairs to investigate the mold's health effects and ways of removing it (SR 77).
Oklahoma created a 28-member task force on mold and mold remediation and required it to report its findings to state legislative leaders by February 2, 2004 (HCR 1011).
Tennessee requires the state education commissioner to establish guidelines for mold abatement in public schools, and creates a mold abatement task force (HB 891).
Texas requires the state health department to license mold assessors and remediators, and to establish and enforce minimum performance standards and work practices for conducting mold assessments and mold remediation (HB 329).
The difficulty in proving causation between mold and illness is one of the factors that distinguish mold claims from asbestos claims, according to the Pepperdine Law Review. Additional distinguishing factors are that:
1. there is no "signature disease" linked to mold, such as asbestosis, lung cancer and mesothelioma, connected to asbestos exposure;
2. mold injuries are less severe than those related to asbestos, which can kill;
3. there are no specific tests doctors can use to test for mold exposure;
4. symptoms associated with mold occur only in its presence, and symptoms generally disappeared when exposure ends, unlike asbestos;
5. there are no federal guidelines for permissible mold exposure limits;
6. there are no "deep pockets" product manufacturers, as there were for asbestos; and
7. insurers often exclude mold coverage from insurance policies.
The law review article concludes that these and other factors will prevent mold litigation, at least as far as personal injury claims, from reaching the level of asbestos litigation. Furthermore, the author writes, insurers are actively seeking to limit their potential liability for mold damages, which should further limit the size of mold litigation
This is probably more than you ever wanted to know about mold
But since it has come up several times in the last couple of days I am including it.
I welcome any additional information.