Mold Problem In Multi-family Complex
I'm in the process of buying a 24-unit apt complex. In the course of my due diligence, I hired a property inspector to walk thru the buildings and 8 of the units, which resulted in the discovery of serious mold, one type of which he suspected of being toxic mold. In fact, one tenant who had mold in his unit complained of rashes. Since the inspection, I've had two mold remediation contractors look at it: one says the issue could be resolved for $10k max. The other says he estimates it would be between $100-200k to fix! Being that this is my first REI, I'm really wanting to do this right, or walk away if necessary. Are there any other steps I can take to get me a more accurate assessment of the risk/cost to remediate so I can make a more informed decision?
Have seller do the mold remediation as part of the sale. It is his mold. Get a guarantee transfered to you and one from the seller too. The insurance policy may cover it.
Good LUCK and HAPPY HOLIDAYS
Hope this helps some
Ted Jr
I'm taking a RE Finance and Investment class, and last night found out that for past couple of years, mold has become the modern day equivalent of lead paint and asbestos.
This is indeed true. HOwever mold is not a real problem in most cases. I don't know how your state is but special certification is not required in "mold removal" in the three states I have worked in over the last couple of years.
Call in another contractor or several and see what they think. I would hold it in an entity that would limit your risk should something untoward happen in the future.
The real deal here is "why is there mold growing here?" Generally it is poor ventilation which causes moisture and thus the build up of mold.
I would say this is a good opportunity! let the others be scared of it. Obviously it hasn't affected the owners ability to rent the place.
Second, stay very wary of home inspectors. These are guys that charge an inordinate amount of money that they justify by finding problems on your property. They must find problems!
In this situation the seller might be more flexible, even do a "subject to" deal etc.
If you have any questions PM me and better yet send me a digital picture of what your looking at.
This may or may not apply to your state, I include it for general information.
The National Conference of State Legislatures (NCSL) reports that six other states (California, Montana, New Jersey, Oklahoma, Tennessee and Texas) have enacted mold legislation. Another 38 bills were not enacted or were pending in 12 other states this summer (see attached lists).
This legislation focuses primarily on (1) gathering information about mold and its hazards; (2) establishing exposure standards; (3) regulating mold inspectors and remediation specialists; and (4) requiring realtors, landlords, and homeowners to disclose the presence of mold when selling property. We have attached summaries of this legislation compiled by NCSL and the National Association of Mutual Insurance Companies (NAMIC) (Legislation - Mold Bills).
On the federal level, U. S. Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) has introduced "The Toxic Mold and Safety and Protection Act of 2003" (H. R. 1268). It would direct the U. S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the Centers for Disease Control to study the health effects of indoor mold growth, direct the Secretary of Housing and Urban Development to establish inspection requirements for existing housing and construction standards for new housing, authorize EPA grants to remove mold in public buildings, create a toxic mold insurance program, and provide Medicaid coverage to mold victims unable to secure adequate health care.
Here is the part that is most likely pertinent to you.
We could not find any laws specifically referring to mold remediation. However, plaintiffs may sue for damages resulting from exposure to mold under several legal theories, such as negligence and breach of contract.
Law journal articles estimate that there were about 10,000 mold cases nationwide in 2002, with the number expected to increase, particularly in states where the climate and construction of air-tight buildings are conducive to mold growth, such as Texas, California, and Florida. Claims were based on such grounds as personal injury, construction defects, bad faith, negligence, and failure to disclose. The largest verdict was apparently $ 32 million in the Texas case of Ballard v. Fire Insurance Exchange. (An appeals court later reduced that verdict to about $ 4 million in actual damages. )
Attorneys Cameron Kerry and Deborah Johnson write in "The Growing Problem of Mold," in the September 2002 issue of Metropolitan Corporate Counsel that while there are "strongly suggestive case reports and animal studies," there are not many comprehensive studies of the dangers of mold. The authors write that (1) there is some association between the presence of mold in homes and a number of respiratory symptoms, particularly among sensitive individuals, but that the symptoms may also be associated with other factors; (2) the relationship between levels of exposure and illness is uncertain; and (3) the burden of mold-related illness on the general population is unclear.
California's law, the Toxic Mold Protection Act of 2001(California Health and Safety Code, § 26100 et seq. ) directs the state department of health services to determine the feasibility of adopting permissible exposure limits for indoor mold and develop standards for assessing the health threat it poses. It requires landlords and sellers of residential and commercial property to disclose in writing the presence or prior existence of mold. The disclosure requirements take effect after the state adopts standards and develops guidelines concerning toxic mold exposure limits and remediation.
The Montana law requires sellers of property, landlords and others to disclose the presence of mold if they know of such a problem. They may do so on at least one document executed before or at the time an offer is made to buy, rent or lease habitable property (HB 536).
The New Jersey resolution urges the state to develop ways to help residents identify a particular mold and develop strategies to address it. The resolution urges the commissioners of health and senior services and of community affairs to investigate the mold's health effects and ways of removing it (SR 77).
Oklahoma created a 28-member task force on mold and mold remediation and required it to report its findings to state legislative leaders by February 2, 2004 (HCR 1011).
Tennessee requires the state education commissioner to establish guidelines for mold abatement in public schools, and creates a mold abatement task force (HB 891).
Texas requires the state health department to license mold assessors and remediators, and to establish and enforce minimum performance standards and work practices for conducting mold assessments and mold remediation (HB 329).
The difficulty in proving causation between mold and illness is one of the factors that distinguish mold claims from asbestos claims, according to the Pepperdine Law Review. Additional distinguishing factors are that:
1. there is no "signature disease" linked to mold, such as asbestosis, lung cancer and mesothelioma, connected to asbestos exposure;
2. mold injuries are less severe than those related to asbestos, which can kill;
3. there are no specific tests doctors can use to test for mold exposure;
4. symptoms associated with mold occur only in its presence, and symptoms generally disappeared when exposure ends, unlike asbestos;
5. there are no federal guidelines for permissible mold exposure limits;
6. there are no "deep pockets" product manufacturers, as there were for asbestos; and
7. insurers often exclude mold coverage from insurance policies.
The law review article concludes that these and other factors will prevent mold litigation, at least as far as personal injury claims, from reaching the level of asbestos litigation. Furthermore, the author writes, insurers are actively seeking to limit their potential liability for mold damages, which should further limit the size of mold litigation
This is probably more than you ever wanted to know about mold
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But since it has come up several times in the last couple of days I am including it.
_________________
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People who avoid failure also avoid success.
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[ Edited by Stockpro99 on Date 12/03/2003 ]
I would make the seller remediate it and get all the documentation from the seller at closing.
This way it's his problem, not yours.
[addsig]
Sick housing the untold story...
I do a area talk show and I also do a lot in the world of real estate. I was in the custom home building business have knowledge of a lot of the building code statues and information on what I would state is the sick home issue in reality.
For one if you have a mold problem its very hard to get rid of it.
Most contractors have a paint that can get rid of but the truth is that mold is hard to kill and is very toxic to tenants.
In fact the one in the building has the right to sue the former landlord because toxic mold can lead to lung disease and other breathing problems which will never go away.
If you take possession on the property my question would be can you also be held libel for furture issues with this tenant if the mold problem either comes back or is not totally removed from the unit and he decides to sue all parties who had ownership.
Before you go into this building remember this can be a dream or it can become your worse nightmare.
And mold is a sign of possible water damage behind the walls which means there maybe other toxics in the building.
I do mortgages as well and on my talk show I spoke of other hidden things folks don't know about buildings.
Here is another fact not related....
Did you know that if people use crack or had a lab in a home or building this is dangerous and also stays within the walls and fixtures and is hard to remove?
they are children who moved into untils with this in them after someone was arrested for this crime. Many times law inforcement officers go into these building with special protection clothing because of the toxic's within the crank , crack or other street drugs and the landlord can be held responsible for this as well. This topic came up when I had a Bounty Hunter on my television show talking about the arrest made and that the officers doing the arrest got sick and then we talked about children and people who developed these conditions, so watch out. It maybe better to look into another property if you feel that the cost and removal will cost you more than the profit.
IF you are in Illinois and want any other information contact me by e-mail as I stated I am a talk show host and also a mortgage loan office.
If you e-mail me I will give you my phone number to talk direct.
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