Should The Forums Be Free?
Here are the stats.
Out of 2718 people that have participated in the forums the past two months. Only 572 of them don't have a subscription.
A good point the other day (can't remember who I was talking to) that in order for us to protect people from being scammed, it might be wise to just close the forums to just members only.
But it will still be free to view the forums though.
What are your guys thoughts on this??
Read...Free
Post...Subscribe
I don't see a problem with this.
John (LV)
Joel,
This addresses the other thread in this Forum as well as this topic.
I agree with JohnLocke that defining the target market is critical to designing and successfully implementing a marketing plan.
I have some questions:
1. Is TCI's target market people from all levels of RE interest and/or RE experience say, in the US?
2. Is your overall goal to maximize traffic to TCI, regardless of whether it's subscriber or non-subscriber traffic?
In the other topic in this Forum, I think you said that it's the beginners who are complaining about the subscription prices.
3. Of the total membership (subscriber and non-subscriber combined), what is the % of:
a. Newbie level members
b. Rookie level members
c. All Star level members
Nancy
Joel,
.
Some additional thoughts.
I feel the Forums become boring when much of what is getting posted are questions that have been asked and answered many, many times -- and sometimes just the week before.
Is it possible that people will NOT come to TCI (with or without a subscription) where the Forums lose "freshness" because much of the same old stuff is being asked and answered repeatedly?
If people had to have at least "Rookie" level of membership in order to post in the Forums, AND if the Rookie level let people do Forum and Article Searches, wouldn't that stimulate traffic because:
a. people would come to TCI more frequently, not just to see what was being posted, but also to do research on specific issues discussed in the past in the Forums or Articles;
b. the Forums would be more interesting and not have much of the same old stuff being asked and answered over and over;
c. people with other levels of RE interest and/or experience (whether commercial or residential) would come to TCI and not be turned off by repititious posting.
Now I realize that some people would probably be too lazy to research their question before posting it, but I think most people would do a little research first (particularly if the "Report this Post" categories included something like "repetitious question"
The more value they would see in TCI, the more they would tell their friends and acquaintances about TCI. Word of mouth advertising is great.
John L,
What an inspiring comment you have made, we as old timers in the business forget one important fact there is no stupid question unless it is not asked.
This forum as a whole is one of the better forums that do not allow flaming as many other real estate forums do.
Joel has worked on this forum for years to perfect it's user friendliness and it's content and let's not forget he is the one that has been fronting the cost of it's operation for years.
It is easy for individuals that have no financial interest to instruct how it should be ran. The fact remains that TCI is not a non or not for profit business and as a business it must produce profit and is not this whole point of creative real estate investing.
It's a simple fact that when an individual takes a financial vested interest in something they take much better care of it!
This forum should not be free and the current fee structure is vary fair considering the wealth of information that is provided.
[addsig]
I have always wanted TCI to be relatively cheap for somebody to learn.
However, I we can't give everything away for free, because of our overhead. Wages, Salaries, Computer Upkeep, etc.
With the fees from TCI, we plan on developing more and more features geared to the Professional Real Estate Investor. Notice I said Professional.
My Dad, God rest his soul, had something written down right after he passed in a book. I found it when the family had to go through all his stuff. The scribbled down jot in the inside of the book cover said. "Men follow men who raise the bar, not lower it."
That is exactly what I want to do with TCI. Raise the bar for REI Professionals, while still be affordable for a newbie. But I do not want to target newbie investors, like several other competing websites.
Even though I have done several deals, when I started brain picking some of the other gurus on TCI, I found out, by all means I am a newbie. REI is just like Computers, there is ALWAYS something to learn.
I think that the forums should be free. I left another forum in defense of John Locke, and because of some flaming threads. When I came here, I was made a moderator, while I am appreciative for the title, I am not sure that I am worthy. I do know that if I had to pay, I would not be here. Not that I don't think the information is valuable, however I am involved in so many different things, that I would have to choose. In my mind, paying to help would not be my highest priority. Now as a moderator, I might get some leeway, discounts or other type of benefit but to a pro that just occasionally visits and comments, you would probably lose that kind of person.
That all being said, I don't know Joels business, or sources of income from the site. I know as any business man knows, it must be made profitable or there is no point. I also know that I hate it when people present problems in a "helpful" manner without providing their idea of a solution. I have to go to my sons Soccer game now but I will give an opinion later on some ideas that I believe might help boost profits and maybe bring more people.
Shawn(OH)
I don't mind paying, though I am a moderator I paid.
I like the site because it keeps my mind active and as I respond to others it cements the concepts in my own mind and I am thereby improved.
Socrates said " it is only through dialogue that we learn anything". This is a good forum for that.
How about a blend of free/pay? I think that maybe the first 20 posts or replies could be free and then you need to pay to go beyond that trial period.
Just my two cents...
[addsig]
This site was built by the new person, abeit there are other sites doing the same thing this site became number one doing it that way.
If someone, anyone can tell how many pro investors will come to this site and explain to me why a pro investor would come here I would like to hear it.
My definition of a serious professional investor:
A professional investor makes decisions based on profit vs loss. He does not frequent discussion boards as there is no beneficial monetary outcome from doing this.
He or she has their own method of finding deals and certainly are not going to share this information with anyone.
Many of my top students left the boards after they started doing deals, they learned, they studied, then they felt what they learned they are not about to start posting on a discussion board.
I could give you name after name of some very giving investors who know their stuff and would never pay to be on a board. My old friend Shawn was telling it like it is, pay to be on a site what for?
$Cash$
I said I would get back to you and here I be. Frst off, as I said earlier, I think to pay to read the forums or to post in the forums is not smart. I believe it will bring in the wrong element, ie the arrogant, egotistical, loudmouth that no one else will listen to anywhere else... we've had our share. I even more so think it will turn off the serious, quiet pro's, whose advise is invaluable. ( Sorry to interject but this has been bugging me for some time now. In our emails to moderator to edit or delete a post it says if you see a reoccuring offender... I don't believe reoccuring is a word let alone proper. I believe the correct word is recurring. AND I am from COSHOCTON, Ohio where when we go out on friday night we put on a clean John Deere T shirt and brush our tooth) Meanwhile back at the ranch.... I believe a sure way to raise revenue would be to charge for groups of relevant articles... but then you'd have to read some of the submitted articles to make sure they were worth paying for. I am sorry Joel, but some of these article submissions (Advertisements) have no place on these boards. I also think that you should have an advertising type forum where people can actively search for funding, or mentors. You could charge these people who are looking to spend $$ on a mentor as well as charge those who are wanting to mentor for a fee. Of course then you have to screen your mentors, lenders, folks you are giving your tacit approval to. I also think you should ask and help some of your better posters to publish groups of articles, and sell those articles here and at a reasonable price. Then you would honestly have cutting edge material, written by people who are not teachers, gurus, hustlers, etc... but actual professionals, actually performing successfuly in their craft. I also think that your home page should be offering something for sale (that makes the site $$$) It should be a good value, and should be priced so that even the poor folks w/ bad credit (seemingly pervasive here) can afford. I also believe that if you open up for mentoring, hustling etc.. there should be an open forum kind of like EBAY feedback where both parties are encouraged if not required to report positively or negatively as the case may be.
Thanks,
Shawn(OH)
Well I would have to agree with Shawn somewhat!
As one of those so called gurus that is vary arrogant, vary egotistical, and a big loudmouth
but active in his craft I will have to put in my two cents worth as well yet again. (It's ok folks I can make fun of my self)
One of the key factors to continue growth we as moderators should be careful with how we deal with new members by our response to their same old tired questions that have been asked a billion times, I even get on the edge when one of my students ask what is a deed or better yet what is a good investment?
We never know if the new member will turn into a paid member!
Another key factor as a moderator we also should be vary careful of flexing with one another in front of the new folks.
Ha, I have been part of both areas that I am talking about and in no fashion able to point fingers without pointing at my self first.
My staff understands that no matter what we disagree on it will never be displayed to our students "It's Called Show Time" in my office and we are all on our best professional behavior during student training.
I have seen this forum grow in many positive ways and with growth comes a few pains!
The key to making this forum grow is revenue.
I love what one person said why not give a free limited trial than a charge would be into affect.
Many people told me years ago that to teach real estate investing and to charge $1,000 for training that people would never pay and yet they were not correct.
I have even had people tell me that I charge to much as well, but the fact is doing this successfully for 20 plus years has to be worth something!
I say this because Joel has been working on this project for years with a lot of out of pocket cash, hard work and the most valuable asset we all have "TIME".
It is time for this man to reap a return from his investment.
Giving away this great service may be a great deed, but as a multiple business owner a business must produce a profit.
We are all in the field of investing, what would you do with a subject investment that was not producing profit?
Would you sell it for profit?
Would you owner finance it for profit?
Would you lease option it for profit?
What creative measures would you take to turn TCI into a profit machine!
We all know that giving it away for free would not create profit!
So lets get creative, think out of the box and help Joel out on this one.
[addsig]
Naturally looking at TCI from Joel's standpoint, none of us would give out trade secrets in detail for our marketing plans. At least I would not think so, if this be the case then any conceptual ideas we may have would be different possibly from the over all goals Joel is looking to achieve.
What needs to be done is a Business Plan, certainly there are enough statistics to more than generalize, thus at this point in time a solid business plan could be developed.
I would take key catagories, and break them down revenue wise and popularity wise find the correlation between what equals revenues to the site and what could be discontinued and what should be beefed up.
By doing this you would also have an idea of how any future features that are added to the site would help revenue wise.
You could start in the Products & Services section. Having 182 products does not make sales and more than likely leaves the viewer scratching their head without ordering at all.
To get to my point when a newsletter goes out if a product is not on sale it does not show up in the newsletter. I guess the idea here if it is on sale people will purchase, well if the product is $18.95 and the site has another product for $800 that has been a strong seller guess which one I would be promoting in the newsletter.
This is one area that I see of lost revenue over many, many months.
Every area of TCI could be analyized even the forums, should there be additions or deletions. Just some things I would look at when making future projections on a course of action to take.
$Cash$