I have to wonder?? If these investment guru's are great at creative investing why do they need to offer horrifically expense boot camps to earn a living?
I would say most of the so called "gurus" that run those camps are more salesman typed that blab on about theory and such rather than facts. Any camp or infomercial that blabs on about how much money you can make and how easy it is to do, is a scam plain and simple. Wake up[ Edited by dgtop on Date 03/16/2004 ]
It is quite simple. When you pay an accountant $250 per hour you don't think twice. Same with an attorney. Well. a good RE investor will make $200-$400 an hour. Why do you not think there time is money? Some may not be worth the cost, agreed. It depends on what your time is worth. Time is money.
People pay 10K a year for upper level education, so they can make 50K a year. Why not pay 5K to make 100K per year.
What is the ROI worth to you?
Best to you
Sire
I think its a catch 22 because most of the Real Estate gurus talk about buying properties with "NO MONEY DOWN" well the no money down approach only works for people with GOOD credit,and most cased bad areas of town like were I am from..LOL but they miss one point most people trying to attend these courses dont have two nickles to rub together so how can we afford to pay for these $500-3,000 dollar traninning classes or courses. My theory is...
"I would rather have $10 from 500 people than $500 dollars from 10 people think about that one...peace!
steadydoses??????
$10 x 500 = $5000 dollars.
$500 x 10 = $5000 dollars.
I would go for the $500 from 10 people...less work.
The good ol Multi Level Marketing guys.
"I'd rather have 1% of 100 peoples efforts as opposed to 100% of my own effort"
Like someone stated before, how much does it cost to get a college degree? How long does that process take?...what are you going to $make$ once you finish with that degree?
Time is money. If you send your kids to private school, you don't think twice about the guru's teaching their.
These "guru's" aren't all bad people. I attended a boot camp where a guy that was 18 years old attended for free. He opened his mouth to the person that was giving the boot camp. Basicly the 18 year old heard the boot camp pitch, got excited about it and approached the person giving the boot camp. The person who was giving the boot camp was so impressed with what the 18 year old had to say, they let him come for free. He just had to pay for travel and lodging.
I do agree, some aren't worth the time, but you just have to do your due.
[ Edited by nebulousd on Date 03/16/2004 ]
Thank you for all those interesting replies to the question. However, all of you missed the point.
If the guru's are making so much money investing RE why do they need to do boot camps?
dgtop in NC suggested that I "wake up". Gee, were I asleep I would not have asked the question.
The analogy given for what one might pay a CPA or attorney per hour is partially useful. However, when I sit down with either one it's one on one.
Guru charges 3k for a week-end, has around 50 or more people, well do the math or 150,000 for two days work Eight hrs a day, hmmm, looks like it comes out 9,375.00 per hr.
How much are you paying for your kids in private school??
I don't know of any guru's on this site but I will paste something that John Locke wrote...I hope he doesn't mind.
------------------------------------
Here is a question I received via e-mail:
Q, I read with interest your message in front of the bird
dog book.
Your message about all the people selling REI courses. My question is why do you think you are different? I am seeing a $1500 class that you are
trying to sell me now?
Certainly if I can learn and do these things then the class is very worthwhile, but the questions remains why you have changed from the REI business of RE to the REI business of education sales?
$ My answer:
I am at retirement age so I do not need to do anymore houses. I could have just retired, however I thought I would give back what I have learned as it keeps me busy, rather than just setting around.
I first retired when I was 39 and went nuts from sitting around, I mean how many fish can you catch, so it is not in my nature to do nothing and this is how I keep active helping others,
First of all I am not doing the workshop class anymore and my web site is being re done so it will not be removed until my new web site is completed.
I can put you in touch with many of my students who are out making money doing Subject To deals from what I have taught them. They will tell you they are glad that I just did not retire; they are believers in what I teach.
I am answering your message albeit asking me the question you did or it could have been a question that you needed advise on, either way I would have answered your question. So your questioning question can I make more money doing deals, heck yes, do I have to heck no, would I rather teach and help others heck, yes.
Stop and think what I offer with my manual or course, 24/7 email with me one on one, my cell phone number when you need advice fast and two password protected web sites to network with other investors and bird dogs.
I have two prices $189.00 or $689.00 that's it and you get the above help and advice even with the $48.00 Bird Dog book I refuse no one when they need help. I hope this answers your question.
Tell me who else gives all this with their course?
I think that nebulousd nailed it, posting vicariously through the words of John Locke. At some level, it's a career change, from investor to educator. Could the gurus continue to make money buying and selling houses? Sure. After 500 houses (in the case of John Locke), I could maybe see wanting to do something different, you know, sort of like: "Been there,. Done that. Next challenge"
In academia, a professor is often measured by the success of his or her students. Same thing with real estate investing. If the students of a particular guru go on to great financial success, there is a lot of credibility given to the teacher. AND it does help sell more courses, which it should. If you are looking for a method to use as your investing style, wouldn't you rather try one that has other investors singing it's praises? Dont you find out something about a car before you go out and buy it? This is where Locke's has really succeeded - you dont see any other guru on this site get the kind of positive feedback that he does from people that are out there doing deals. And despite the fact that you have to pay (for a course) to play, he doesnt have to pass out his personal cell phone number and provide the level of attention that he does to his students. That in my mind is 'giving something back' (as John states in his reasons for turning to educator from investor).
It depends on who you goto for these courses. There are scammers out there wasting your time and money. Ron LeGrand is not a scam. I have an investor buddy that has gone to his boot camps a few times and met him in person.
He advised me to save the money and do so as soon as possible.
Why you ask?
Everytime you go you learn something new that could have earned you more profit in the last few deals you had done. New ideas that you never thought of or didn't understand are explained. He said he will be over $100,000 in education by the time he is done...but he would have made over $3 million in profit. Worth it? Hell yea...would you spend $200 to make $500? I think so...
Went to a guru course where the "guru" offered to partner up with his students if they didn't have enough capital....The guru was pretty much teaching everyone to be his own bird dog. The students did the grunt work while he backed the money and took part of the profit.
Quote:
On 2004-03-17 16:00, smallinvestments wrote:
Went to a guru course where the "guru" offered to partner up with his students if they didn't have enough capital....The guru was pretty much teaching everyone to be his own bird dog. The students did the grunt work while he backed the money and took part of the profit.
I am all about something like this, a win win setup and a very smart way to go about aquiring property. Just have to be carefull about saturation and your birddogs not fighting for the scraps if things aren't the greatest. Or the mentor/guru would have to be versed enough to diverseafy the talents of his crew.
I am not defending all guru's. Far from it. Sometimes I think the water down the expertise by becoming too successful. They become so busy that they can't do it all alone and so they hire someone. Believe me, no two people are going to teach exactly alike. Now, from an entreprenurial spirit, I often wonder why I shouldn't write a book, and have been thinking about that and also about hitting the "guru" seminar trail. Arrogant? Egotistical? Perhaps, but that is not the reason I would or will do it. We all have dreams. Some of us convert those dreams to goals. Fewer still attain those goals. To those that attain the goals they have set, realize that anyone can do it if the formulate a goal a plan of action and the actually take action to follow the map. Then, after all the goals are attained, what next? Is that all there is to life? The challenges that once seemed insurmountable, are now mundane. A true entrepreneur needs the rush, the chase, the excitement. So why not hit the guru trail and impart the knowledge gained through a lifetime of trial and error? Are you going to create competition? perhaps, but not nearly enough to hurt a real pro. Realize that the excitement, the gratification wil be #1. the money that will flow in by the many idiots who will pay and sit, but not absorb, or do anything with their newfound tools... as a sidebar, these are the same naysayers that will blame the guru, call him a fake, and generally place blame anywhere but on themselves. Ever notice that the ones who say it can't be done are a lot less affluent than the one who is trying to show you the way?
#2 The look in a students eye... that gleam that says, WOW, I suddenly understand what you are saying.
#3. What makes it all worthwhile, is when a student comes back with a success story. Then you can feel validated that you have had an impact in this world, that your life and lifes work has meaning.
After saying all this, I have never taken a boot camp, but i am not against it if this is a good way for you to learn. How many deals do you have to do for it to pay for itself? Perhaps if you don't have the burning desire to find a way to afford it, you don't have the burning desire to be successful as well. I prefer to see folks find a local mentorand offer to work for them for free, in order to learn. There is no better teacher than experience. Both good and bad. What better area to gain experience, than the area you plan to work. Anyone in Coshocton? Just kidding... I don't have the time to teach, nor am I a good teacher. I am just a lil ol country boy tryin to do good for his family.
Im sure there are guru's that are into marketing their courses instead of doing deals( those that can..do..those that cant..teach) That being said I believe that you can learn from ANYone. I will listen to and adapt any idea that appeals to me. For example I bought LeGrands course a few years ago. The one that HIT me was the L/O course. I felt I could do that, and did. The thing that IRKED me was I didnt know about this site. If I did I could have saved 50% on the course. The course came with FORMS. To me THATS what I was paying for. I attended one of his boots (MOS) and tho I learned, I could have bought the course, got the forms and learned almost as much as I did by attending. So as far as Im concerned, buy the course, stay at home ,study it, come here, and ask questions.
Just a thot
Joe
Kman,
Surely you didn't mean to paint all teachers with the same brush when you said "those who can do; those who can't teach"? Those who are good teachers are ones who have had hands' on experience doing whatever it is that they're trying to teach and pass on to others. In other words, I think it's virtually impossible for someone to be a good teacher without having had the actual experience of whatever the subject matter is--credibility.
I would say most of the so called "gurus" that run those camps are more salesman typed that blab on about theory and such rather than facts. Any camp or infomercial that blabs on about how much money you can make and how easy it is to do, is a scam plain and simple. Wake up[ Edited by dgtop on Date 03/16/2004 ]
It is quite simple. When you pay an accountant $250 per hour you don't think twice. Same with an attorney. Well. a good RE investor will make $200-$400 an hour. Why do you not think there time is money? Some may not be worth the cost, agreed. It depends on what your time is worth. Time is money.
People pay 10K a year for upper level education, so they can make 50K a year. Why not pay 5K to make 100K per year.
What is the ROI worth to you?
Best to you
Sire
I think its a catch 22 because most of the Real Estate gurus talk about buying properties with "NO MONEY DOWN" well the no money down approach only works for people with GOOD credit,and most cased bad areas of town like were I am from..LOL but they miss one point most people trying to attend these courses dont have two nickles to rub together so how can we afford to pay for these $500-3,000 dollar traninning classes or courses. My theory is...
"I would rather have $10 from 500 people than $500 dollars from 10 people think about that one...peace!
steadydoses??????
$10 x 500 = $5000 dollars.
$500 x 10 = $5000 dollars.
I would go for the $500 from 10 people...less work.
The good ol Multi Level Marketing guys.
"I'd rather have 1% of 100 peoples efforts as opposed to 100% of my own effort"
Like someone stated before, how much does it cost to get a college degree? How long does that process take?...what are you going to $make$ once you finish with that degree?
Time is money. If you send your kids to private school, you don't think twice about the guru's teaching their.
These "guru's" aren't all bad people. I attended a boot camp where a guy that was 18 years old attended for free. He opened his mouth to the person that was giving the boot camp. Basicly the 18 year old heard the boot camp pitch, got excited about it and approached the person giving the boot camp. The person who was giving the boot camp was so impressed with what the 18 year old had to say, they let him come for free. He just had to pay for travel and lodging.
I do agree, some aren't worth the time, but you just have to do your due.
[ Edited by nebulousd on Date 03/16/2004 ]
Thank you for all those interesting replies to the question. However, all of you missed the point.
If the guru's are making so much money investing RE why do they need to do boot camps?
dgtop in NC suggested that I "wake up". Gee, were I asleep I would not have asked the question.
The analogy given for what one might pay a CPA or attorney per hour is partially useful. However, when I sit down with either one it's one on one.
Guru charges 3k for a week-end, has around 50 or more people, well do the math or 150,000 for two days work Eight hrs a day, hmmm, looks like it comes out 9,375.00 per hr.
How much are you paying for your kids in private school??
Are we having fun yet?
I don't know of any guru's on this site but I will paste something that John Locke wrote...I hope he doesn't mind.
------------------------------------
Here is a question I received via e-mail:
Q, I read with interest your message in front of the bird
dog book.
Your message about all the people selling REI courses. My question is why do you think you are different? I am seeing a $1500 class that you are
trying to sell me now?
Certainly if I can learn and do these things then the class is very worthwhile, but the questions remains why you have changed from the REI business of RE to the REI business of education sales?
$ My answer:
I am at retirement age so I do not need to do anymore houses. I could have just retired, however I thought I would give back what I have learned as it keeps me busy, rather than just setting around.
I first retired when I was 39 and went nuts from sitting around, I mean how many fish can you catch, so it is not in my nature to do nothing and this is how I keep active helping others,
First of all I am not doing the workshop class anymore and my web site is being re done so it will not be removed until my new web site is completed.
I can put you in touch with many of my students who are out making money doing Subject To deals from what I have taught them. They will tell you they are glad that I just did not retire; they are believers in what I teach.
I am answering your message albeit asking me the question you did or it could have been a question that you needed advise on, either way I would have answered your question. So your questioning question can I make more money doing deals, heck yes, do I have to heck no, would I rather teach and help others heck, yes.
Stop and think what I offer with my manual or course, 24/7 email with me one on one, my cell phone number when you need advice fast and two password protected web sites to network with other investors and bird dogs.
I have two prices $189.00 or $689.00 that's it and you get the above help and advice even with the $48.00 Bird Dog book I refuse no one when they need help. I hope this answers your question.
Tell me who else gives all this with their course?
$
John $Cash$ Locke "
http://www.thecreativeinvestor.com/ViewTopic23791-34-14.html
I think that sums it up.
I think that nebulousd nailed it, posting vicariously through the words of John Locke. At some level, it's a career change, from investor to educator. Could the gurus continue to make money buying and selling houses? Sure. After 500 houses (in the case of John Locke), I could maybe see wanting to do something different, you know, sort of like: "Been there,. Done that. Next challenge"
In academia, a professor is often measured by the success of his or her students. Same thing with real estate investing. If the students of a particular guru go on to great financial success, there is a lot of credibility given to the teacher. AND it does help sell more courses, which it should. If you are looking for a method to use as your investing style, wouldn't you rather try one that has other investors singing it's praises? Dont you find out something about a car before you go out and buy it? This is where Locke's has really succeeded - you dont see any other guru on this site get the kind of positive feedback that he does from people that are out there doing deals. And despite the fact that you have to pay (for a course) to play, he doesnt have to pass out his personal cell phone number and provide the level of attention that he does to his students. That in my mind is 'giving something back' (as John states in his reasons for turning to educator from investor).
IMHO,
molotov
It depends on who you goto for these courses. There are scammers out there wasting your time and money. Ron LeGrand is not a scam. I have an investor buddy that has gone to his boot camps a few times and met him in person.
He advised me to save the money and do so as soon as possible.
Why you ask?
Everytime you go you learn something new that could have earned you more profit in the last few deals you had done. New ideas that you never thought of or didn't understand are explained. He said he will be over $100,000 in education by the time he is done...but he would have made over $3 million in profit. Worth it? Hell yea...would you spend $200 to make $500? I think so...
Went to a guru course where the "guru" offered to partner up with his students if they didn't have enough capital....The guru was pretty much teaching everyone to be his own bird dog. The students did the grunt work while he backed the money and took part of the profit.
Quote:
On 2004-03-17 16:00, smallinvestments wrote:
Went to a guru course where the "guru" offered to partner up with his students if they didn't have enough capital....The guru was pretty much teaching everyone to be his own bird dog. The students did the grunt work while he backed the money and took part of the profit.
I am all about something like this, a win win setup and a very smart way to go about aquiring property. Just have to be carefull about saturation and your birddogs not fighting for the scraps if things aren't the greatest. Or the mentor/guru would have to be versed enough to diverseafy the talents of his crew.
I am not defending all guru's. Far from it. Sometimes I think the water down the expertise by becoming too successful. They become so busy that they can't do it all alone and so they hire someone. Believe me, no two people are going to teach exactly alike. Now, from an entreprenurial spirit, I often wonder why I shouldn't write a book, and have been thinking about that and also about hitting the "guru" seminar trail. Arrogant? Egotistical? Perhaps, but that is not the reason I would or will do it. We all have dreams. Some of us convert those dreams to goals. Fewer still attain those goals. To those that attain the goals they have set, realize that anyone can do it if the formulate a goal a plan of action and the actually take action to follow the map. Then, after all the goals are attained, what next? Is that all there is to life? The challenges that once seemed insurmountable, are now mundane. A true entrepreneur needs the rush, the chase, the excitement. So why not hit the guru trail and impart the knowledge gained through a lifetime of trial and error? Are you going to create competition? perhaps, but not nearly enough to hurt a real pro. Realize that the excitement, the gratification wil be #1. the money that will flow in by the many idiots who will pay and sit, but not absorb, or do anything with their newfound tools... as a sidebar, these are the same naysayers that will blame the guru, call him a fake, and generally place blame anywhere but on themselves. Ever notice that the ones who say it can't be done are a lot less affluent than the one who is trying to show you the way?
#2 The look in a students eye... that gleam that says, WOW, I suddenly understand what you are saying.
#3. What makes it all worthwhile, is when a student comes back with a success story. Then you can feel validated that you have had an impact in this world, that your life and lifes work has meaning.
After saying all this, I have never taken a boot camp, but i am not against it if this is a good way for you to learn. How many deals do you have to do for it to pay for itself? Perhaps if you don't have the burning desire to find a way to afford it, you don't have the burning desire to be successful as well. I prefer to see folks find a local mentorand offer to work for them for free, in order to learn. There is no better teacher than experience. Both good and bad. What better area to gain experience, than the area you plan to work. Anyone in Coshocton? Just kidding... I don't have the time to teach, nor am I a good teacher. I am just a lil ol country boy tryin to do good for his family.
Good Luck,
Shawn(OH)
Im sure there are guru's that are into marketing their courses instead of doing deals( those that can..do..those that cant..teach) That being said I believe that you can learn from ANYone. I will listen to and adapt any idea that appeals to me. For example I bought LeGrands course a few years ago. The one that HIT me was the L/O course. I felt I could do that, and did. The thing that IRKED me was I didnt know about this site. If I did I could have saved 50% on the course. The course came with FORMS. To me THATS what I was paying for. I attended one of his boots (MOS) and tho I learned, I could have bought the course, got the forms and learned almost as much as I did by attending. So as far as Im concerned, buy the course, stay at home ,study it, come here, and ask questions.
Just a thot
Joe
Kman,
Surely you didn't mean to paint all teachers with the same brush when you said "those who can do; those who can't teach"? Those who are good teachers are ones who have had hands' on experience doing whatever it is that they're trying to teach and pass on to others. In other words, I think it's virtually impossible for someone to be a good teacher without having had the actual experience of whatever the subject matter is--credibility.