Holdover Eviction In NY - General Questions.
I have a duplex in Nassau County, NY that I bought a couple of months ago. I inherited tenants in one of the units. The tenants refuse to sign a lease and are being uncooperative. They have NOT stopped paying rent.
I have decided I want them out and will issue a notice to vacate. I doubt if they will comply. Does anyone know the general process of a holdover eviction in this area? How long does it usually take, etc...???
Don't confuse this with NYC which I know takes FOREVER!!!
Also, if anyone can recommend a decent RE attorney in the area...
Thanks in advance.
When you purchased the house were they on a lease or a month to month? If it was a lease you may ask who you purchased it from for a copy of the lease. If there on a month to month just have them served that you are giving them 30 days to vacate. I would also contact a lawyer who handles re in your county who can show you how to go about getting the tenants out. Some times it just takes a letter from a lawyer for tenants to move out.
Why is it you want these tenants out other then them not signing the lease?
This doesn't answer your question, but I'm curious: If they have been paying their rent, why do you want them to leave?
The tenants had a lease with the former owner that has expired. They are now on Month to Month terms.
They were extremely nice when we first met them, hence why we didn't make a condition of the purchase that they be gone prior. Since we bought the place, we negotiated a rent increase to bring them up to market rents. Ever since the increase, their attitude has gotten worse and worse and we've had several confrontations with them.
We've been trying to get them to sign a lease for two weeks and they have been stalling. When we finally cornered them, things went bad and the tenants walked away from the table saying "take whatever legal action you want". This all happened last weekend. I don't know if they intend to continue to pay rent as normal next month or not, but I definitely don't want difficult tenants in one of my units whether they pay or not.
The funny part is that had they signed the lease, it would be much harder for me to get rid of them provided they keep paying the rent! A holdover eviction only requires a 30 day notice. If they don't leave in the 30 day term, I can get an eviction without any reason at all other than saying that I want my apartment back from them. There are only a handful of defenses against a holdover eviction that I've heard of, and their situation doesn't seem to apply to any of them.
Now, the only thing I don't know is how long all of this takes as I've never had the pleasure...
I'm seeking out some local attourney's, but I'd prefer to have a referral.
Anyone able to shed some light?
Hopefully so. If not, I'll update as soon as I find an answer.
OK, I spoke to an attorney and the process goes like this:
First you serve a "30 Days to Vacate" Notice. This notice MUST be served prior to the start of the next calendar month. The tenant must have a full calendar month (not just 30 days) notice. In other words, today is July 24th. I must serve the tenants by 7/31 in order to tell them to be out by 8/31.
You must refuse any rent offered once you have served them with the Notice to Vacate or you are extending the tenancy another month and the Notice gets thrown out. You ask the judge for the rent once you go to court.
After the 30 days have passed you go to court and file a petition for holdover eviction. You should get this the same day with a court date 8 to 12 days later scheduled on the petition. The notice is the eviction notice and must be served on the tenant.
The tenant usually will show up to court and ask for an adjournment. The judge will ask if you are alright with this. This is the time to bargain and ask the judge to order that rent be completely paid up. In exchange you grant the adjournment (rescheduled court date). The 2nd court date will usually be in 1 to 2 weeks. Usually on the second court day the tenants are either already gone or the judge will rule in your favor and grant the eviction and order the sherrif to remove the tenant after serving them with a 72 hour eviction notice. It usually takes the sherrif 1 to 2 weeks to act.
The overall process takes about two months.
Again, this is in Nassau County, NY.[ Edited by nyjosh on Date 07/24/2004 ]
Just a fresh point of view, but here's an idea. Prepare a letter notifying them of your intent to non-continue the month-month tennancy. Let then know you you have enjoyed their tennancy, but you require coverage of a lease and since they are unwilling to sign a lease, they need to move.
Perhaps if you are a newer landlord, the tennants may feel they can get by on you a little - or they were used to getting their way with the previous landlord. It is not at all surprising that they would protest the rent increase - however based on your writings, i wouldn't hold them entirely responsible for the 'less than pleasant' conversations.
You have a week to sort this through before you must give them notice to vacate, and if you start immediately trying to patch the relationship (and get them to see why what you need is important) perhaps they will come around and sign the lease prior to the end of the month (and you can avoid facing a vacancy, and possible atty fees).
Of course this assumes they are decent people and want to do the right thing - they just didn't want to pay more. Help them see the benefits of working together (and hopefully you can modify your attitude also) and there is a very reasonable chance this can be mended.
I am looking to get rid of them as they are unreasonably difficult. As to why, it's not clear cut. They haven't protested the rent increase at all.
I first told them about the rent increase and gave them 60 days notice of the increase. I told them that they were nice people and hopefully they would stay, but if it was too much for them, I was giving them two months instead of one so that they'd have time to find a new place without being forced into the high rent.
I explained that my mortgage payment is much higher than the previous owners payment was and because of this, I can't allow them to continue paying below market rent. They said that they were OK with this and understood and have never since actually complained about the increase.
HOWEVER (Using the rent increase as a time marker) since the first higher rent the tenants have gone from being meek and overly nice to highly demanding and unreasonable. I had the hardwood floors in one of my other units refinished, one of these tenants smelled the fumes and automatically assumed that they were dangerous and called me screaming right off the bat! Didn't even give me a chance to breath before flipping out. That was rediculous in light of the fact that I had already verified that there were not health or safety risks from the fumes nor could you smell the fumes except in the hallway directly outside of the other unit.
Several incidents like this have happened that I just won't tolerate. Maybe I'm just oversensitive but calling me at my home and screaming at me without giving me a chance to explain and then hanging up on me is not my idea of a slight communication problem. In light of behavior like this, I'd rather not have them in my unit locked in for a year.
From the last post it sounds like you think I'm being unreasonable. After this little excerpt do you still think so and why? I feel that I've gone out of my way to be nice and help these people, but once it came to money, things went to hell in a handbasket. I always do appreciate an outside view. Thanks for your post.
nyjosh,
you're right on the money.....our props must be delivered empty. It's best to start with a clean slate.
Proceed w/your eviction and get tenants in there that you feel comfortable with.
Thanks for posting the process. I spoke to an L&T attorney in NYC a few weeks ago b/c we're attempting to take a 6 fam out of the rent stabilization program and thru conversation I learned it's the same in the boros (eviciton process you posted). I think the horror stories we hear about are moreso because landlords typically DO NOT take the proper steps to evict.
Please keep us updated. Much success to you!!!!!
I must say that I disagree to most of the posts here. It sounds to me like you were wanting to push a lease on good tenants that paid on time and even agreed to the price increase. Sure, now that the rent has been increased they are going to expect more. They are going to probably vent on some things. It sounds to me like you were the demanding one. Who cares if they don't have a lease f they are good paying tenants? I could understand making demands if they weren't paying. Good tenants are hard to find. You have brought this all on yourself, but it really sounds as if you don't really care as long as you make your point, and have the upper hand. They probably would have signed a new lease if you would have given them time.
So miraclehomes, I get the impression from your post that any tenant that pays is a good one??
I have demanded nothing except common courtesy and keeping the common areas of the property in good shape. Would you tolerate a dead car and a dead motorcycle sitting on your property (especially while trying to rent out another unit)? Would you politely ask your tenants to stop smoking in the common hallway (since they don't smoke near their kid) FOUR times without becoming agressive? Would you have given the tenants free use of a garage and basement area that technically belong to another unit?
I did all of these in the name of keeping the peace and being reasonable. They have not responded in kind and have actually gotten worse in their demeanor.
After all of this, If I'm still the bad guy, then so be it. There are normal tenants out there and I'll go out of my way to make them happy and keep them. Tenants that abuse my generosity will go the way of the doe doe bird.
That's my two cents. Thanks for yours also.
Quote:
On 2004-07-25 11:18, miraclehomes wrote:
I must say that I disagree to most of the posts here. It sounds to me like you were wanting to push a lease on good tenants that paid on time and even agreed to the price increase. Sure, now that the rent has been increased they are going to expect more. They are going to probably vent on some things. It sounds to me like you were the demanding one. Who cares if they don't have a lease f they are good paying tenants? I could understand making demands if they weren't paying. Good tenants are hard to find. You have brought this all on yourself, but it really sounds as if you don't really care as long as you make your point, and have the upper hand. They probably would have signed a new lease if you would have given them time.
No, I'm not saying every paying tenant is a good one, just 95% of them.vNo, I would not tolerate these things, but I would give them time to move them, and if they didn't , I would tow them. No cornering, confronting etc... , but I just feel like you probably started this in the beginning, but that is just my 1 1/2 cents worth.