Help! I May Have Stirred Up The Fire!
I have a serious problem right now, I in good faith contacted a creditor(Now in Collections) who I owed money, to negotiate and payoff the bad debt in turn have that returned to good debt on my credit. Well I believe I may have stirred up the fire! Once in contact I/They discovered that they hold two accounts for me in collections one for $633.30 which was my reason for calling and another for 6013.00 which I cannot take care of all at once. Well, after a long discussion about how they needed to settle both I sent them an agreement to settle on the first for 50% ($315.15). Well, shortly after I received 2 calls back both saying that they could not honor any such agreement for legal reasons, and that I had until 5 pm today to settle it or they will come after me. Now I feel like I am in a position where I have to do something and the only thing that I know of that I am able to do right now is file bankruptcy. My total debt right now is approximately $20,000. I cannot afford to set payment arrangements up on my total debt; it would be over $1000 a month. What are my options? 
What does "come after me" mean? Haven't they already "came after you" when they put it into collections? What more can they do?
Why do you feel you are now in a position that you have to do "something"?
What more can they do to you?
From my experience you are just experiencing on over zealous collections person. This happens all the time. Most of them work on commision so all you have done is call some guy sitting at his desk eating a sandwich and offered him the opportunity to make a bigger commision. When you called him to take care of the smaller debt he checked on him computer and saw the larger debt too and thought to himself "I've got a good chance of really making some money by getting this bigger debt taken care of" These guys know that if you call them yourself they have a different type of person on the phone then the normal dead beat. Real dead beats don't call offering to pay debts, the debt collectors can't find them with a search warrant. So they know that if you call them, you are not the typical dead beat and actually care about your credit and are an easy mark to intimidate.
Tell him either to follow through with the first offer on the smaller debt you made and you will recontact them in some time in regard to the larger one when you are more able financially to work something out.
If this clown won't deal with you on the smaller debt, then get to his supervisor.
Let me explain further, When I first called I was talking to a Rep. When I told her what I wanted done (signed agreement) she then got her Manager to talk to me, after explaining everything to her all over again she finally agreed to look at the agreement and would call me back.
I then received a call the following day from the office manager who told me that he would pursue other avenues after 5 PM today, if he did not here from me or my attorney. Now as you may have guessed I have no attorney, and don’t know what to say if I did call back. So I really don’t know what to do at this point.
RUN!!!!!!!!!
no, you may be able to set up a payment schedule for one account at a time. First work on the 600 one than the 6000 one. see if you can set up an installment plan.
Nebulousd,
That is what I was doing. And look where it got me. They wont except one without paying the other.
The-Rehabinator is correct. All the creditors care about is getting their money. If you tell them what you can afford, and come to an agreement with them, then they can set up a schedule for you to honour your committment. I am working on a few assumptions:
a.Your credit is now shot.
b.You are negotiating directly with the creditor rather than the collection agency.
There is a set of standards that all Collection agencies have to follow. Look them up. They cannot do anything to you personally, and have to stop calling you after you have spoken to the creditor.However, if you do not work something out with the creditor they will resume the gestapo intimidation tactics until you buckle. PM me if there is anything I can do to help.
I"ve learned over the years that having a pro (lawyer or consumer credit counselor) make contact for you, and handle ALL communications with the collection co. is a LOT more efficient and better than trying to do it yourself.
I'd prefer the lawyer, because he/she's a little more feared than the CCC, and the lawyer will undoubtedly also notify them, in writing, that they are NOT to make any further direct contact with you*, and they must deal with him/her, and that takes a lot of coll co. bite away.
Fed Consumer Protection Law says that once you so advise them in writing, they CANNOT further bother you...short of suing you...no more harrassing phone calls, etc....this is easily found on internet.
This debt has been charged off by the creditor, so doesn't that mean you can't deal with them anymore?
You seem like you are really in search of some answers, so do yourself a favor and click here and spend some time educating yourself as to your rights.
THE FAIR DEBT COLLECTION PRACTICES ACT http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.htm
You said you don't know what to say if you call back - so don't call back. This is already in collections they have two choices, to keep trying to collect or write it off. Trying to keep collecting means doing what they have been doing.
What were they doing before you called them? That is what they will continue to do. NOTHING
What do you think they are going to do? "manager who told me that he would pursue other avenues after 5 PM today" What other avenues are you afraid of? Do you think they are going to kidnap you dog and hold it for ransom?
They are going to continue to do what they have been doing. Which was ruin your credit, which is already done.
The only thing that is now going to happen is the status will change from an open collection to a closed written off collection.
The only things you can do is try to settle the collection so it show as a paid collection. Or try to get it removed by settling with them. BUT, THIS WON'T HAPPEN, this is not the 80s or even the 90s creditors are extremely reluctant to ever, ever take the item off your credit report no matter how many collection agencies promise you that they will.
Time is on your side, Tell him either to follow through with the first offer on the smaller debt you made and you will recontact them in some time in regard to the larger one when you are more able financially to work something out.
If this clown won't deal with you on the smaller debt, then get to his supervisor, or the supervisor above him and so on.
Or wait it out and try again later.
Quote:
On 2003-12-04 13:34, JohnMerchant wrote:
I"ve learned over the years that having a pro (lawyer or consumer credit counselor) make contact for you, and handle ALL communications with the collection co. is a LOT more efficient and better than trying to do it yourself.
I'd prefer the lawyer, because he/she's a little more feared than the CCC, and the lawyer will undoubtedly also notify them, in writing, that they are NOT to make any further direct contact with you*, and they must deal with him/her, and that takes a lot of coll co. bite away.
Fed Consumer Protection Law says that once you so advise them in writing, they CANNOT further bother you...short of suing you...no more harrassing phone calls, etc....this is easily found on internet.
You say "Fed Law says once you advise them in writing . . . "
Once you advise them of what? Please
Thank you
Mike
Rehabinator,
Thanks, for the link I will check it out in depth.
As to your other question: What are you afraid of?
He said that He could seek repayment through any of the following: Home, Car, Personal wages, etc.
I am not worried about the Home, because I do not have any in my name, but the personal wages and the vehicle would directly effect my life.
But Most importantly I am trying to restore my credit.
Hi Kmaples~
A charge off is just that. The creditor acknowledges this debt but they are removing it from there books persue. However, you are still liable for this debt which will show up on your credit. There is light at the end of the tunnel...meaning you can salvage your credit in time. At present, work with paying off the lowest debt and then paying off your highest debt...since they have reniged on the initial settlement, I would wait a moment. The key here is they want the debt paid. Most times you can settle your debt at a 60% discount or have it removed totally owing nothing...I know I've done it!!! If the debt you owe is just one dollar off then you would have to contact the credit bureau and have them do an investigation...this usually takes 30-45 days...in the interim the creditor must respond within that time frame...if not, then then the debt must be removed...However, you would have to contact all three bureaus to insure this debt is removed from them as well.
I had a debt on my credit report showing I owed well over $6000. This information was incorrect...Now, I did owe about $1100. After I requested the investigation, to my surprise it was removed. Now initially, I did not know this was even possible. Had I known, I would have done this five years earlier.
Many people are not aware they can do this on their own...Therefore, they go and pay someone outrageous money to do this.
Good Luck!
Peace & Blessings~
JB
Oh...and by the way, they cannot come after you...They are no the police. Your debt just henders your credit until it is rectified.
Advise "Them" that they are to 'Cease and Desist' from contacting you over the phone, etc. I believe that by law they can actually contact you once more after you have done so, either by letter or phone, to try to get you to pay up. After that, I believe that it's harrassment.
Also, to others of you out there, can't the creditor/collection agency take this debt to a court and have a judgement filed against the person owing the debt? Even without this person being present?
Millionaire,
I guess I am not doing this the right way then. Because my intention was to settle the smallest first ($600) and continue until all had be resolved or removed. But not to my knowledge they had record of two debts in which they wanted both accounted for. So I should wait and contact them later? and try agian. I guess I don't understand how this will help me restore my credit.
I don't understand why they wont work with me when I am making an attempt to pay this off. Why would I pay off one, and then not pay the other. that makes no sense, so why do the require both paid?
kmaples - in regard to them doing anything else, in the words on Dana Cary playing George Bush the first on Saturday Night Live -
Not Gonnnnnna Happen.
It is great that you are want to take responsibility to pay back your debts. Unfortunately, collection agencies work on commission and some of them just won't work with you on a smaller commission (smaller debt) if they smell the blood in the water (larger potential commission on a larger debt). They can just be misserable.
But time is on your side. They have already done their worst to you buy reporting to the credit bureaus the collection. Now there will only be two things to happen the dept shows as a collection that was closed and written off never to be collected or it will show up as a paid collection.
It is still bad to have a collection on your credit report but a paid collection is marginally better to have since it shows that you tried to make things right.
Here is another tactic you can take. Take the last letter of collection they sent you and send them $20.00 a month for each of the two collections. Keep sending them $20.00 a month for a few months and then recontact them. As long as you are paying back the dept they cannot do anything but accept it.
Do that and call them back in three months and start again, you may find things totally different for you.
Good luck. <IMG SRC="images/forum/smilies/icon_smile.gif"> [ Edited by The-Rehabinator on Date 12/04/2003 ]
rehabinator is dead on. it's simple, you can't sqeeze lemonade out of a rock! they want money and you are willing to pay SOMETHING. you should call them and say "look, i can send you this amount for this debt, do you want it or not!". if you feel better, explain firmly that you don't can't settle anything else and that if they want anything from me, then they'll accept this and they can get the rest later.
be firm with the $8/hr employee who is handling your call even if they put the $10/hr manager on. remember they're not rich nor golden - let them know how you expect to be dealt with and if they don't, you'll come buy thier neighbors house and play the music real loud! every night! hahahahaha
So from what I have gathered the best thing to do here is:
Either wait and try again later and resume this process hopefully with a better result. Demanding a resolution.
Or, get an attorney to contact and resolve the issues on my credit.
Is this correct?
Here's my take: You are dealing with a collection agency. Never deal with one over the phone. If you write a full Cease & Desist letter, they have no choice but to put the matter in suit. A limited C&D letter (don't call, write only) might not cause that result.
Now there are many questions you'll want to answer for yourself before trying to deal with this matter. The first is, what is the Statute of Limitations. If it has passed, you can successfully fight off any lawsuit with little effort. If not, you need to convince the collection agency that they'll get nothing and you'll file bankruptcy if they sue.
As for coming after your car or wages, they won't be able to do that until they go all the way through the lawsuit and get a judgment, then pursue post-judgment remedies like garnishing and levying. You have plenty of time to plan your life accordingly if you think they'll really do that.
Many agencies get a judgment and bring in the debtor for a deposition or send some interrogatories, decide it's uncollectible and paper their wall with it.
If there is a garnishment, often it's subject to so many exemptions (for your dependents, child support, etc.) that it winds up being $5/week.
Get educated, learn about "Debt validation" and other techniques, the FDCPA remedies for bad collections practices, etc. (you can make money on this if your collection agency is suffiicently stupid).
Check www.creditnet.com www.creditcourt.com www.creditboards.com and www.creditinfocenter.com
Looks like it may be 3 years on open accounts in AZ. 6 years if they call it a written contract. Hard to tell what you've got.
What is the difference between written and open?
My guess would be that credit cards would be open accounts, even though a written agreement starts them.
But I'm not versed in Arizona law, so YMMV.
You might also check into whether that debt was assigned to the agency or purchased by them.
If it's assigned, then the original creditor on the $600 bill would probably be very interested to hear that the CA won't settle it with you on account of some other OC's $6k debt. That's not taking good care of the client.
If the CA owns both debts, the OCs won't care anymore.
kmaples - your two choices are available to you but I would highly, highly, highly recommend you do not hire an attorney to deal with them.
Your government has set this all up to protect you and it doesn't require an attorney to settle it. The lawyer will take your money and most likely still end up where you will end up, actually I take that back, he will probably not even do that much.
I would really just send them $20 bucks a month for the next few months then call them back and start again. I think you are going to be amazed at the results you will get.
By sending them $20 buck s a month you will change the mentaility of the collector and the nature of the debt.
RIght now the collector sees a $6600 lump sum dept that if he gets it paid off he will get a big fat commission. So he is walking the fine line between intimidation and breaking the law trying to scare you into paying if off.
If you make some little monthly payments on it and contact them in 3 or 4 months the next collector who you get will see this debt totally differently then it looks now.
He will see a $6600 debt with someone making tiny little payments on it which are going to go on forever! Now when you approach him about doing something in regards to settling it he will be very, very motivated because he is thinking that now there is a commission here for him that didn't exsist before today, and if he does nothing for you, you are just going to continue making your $20 a month payments till eternity and he will get nothing![ Edited by The-Rehabinator on Date 12/04/2003 ]
Send em a check and they will accept it. Then it's settled. Continue to pay as you can. No more no less.
These collection agencies have huge turnovers. Extremely overzealous to start with and then they can't sleep at night dealing with the man in the mirror, they move on to their next career at McDonald's or Walmart.
Thank you all, I apologize for my lack of knowledge in this. From here out I will continue with my approach until I get the desired results.
Hey K,
Turn on the Dave Ramsey show on the AM radio about noon here in Phx. He has no respect for any credit card or collection company. Hates them more than attorneys if you can believe that.
If the CC company has already "charged off" your debt then you are only dealing with the collectors. In that case just tell them to only contact you by mail, and that you will pay as much as you can. Then pay $20 to all of them except the smallest one, and pay as much as you can on that one. When it is gone, put that amount into the next one in line. So if you are paying $100 on the smallest one until its paid, then you will be paying 100+20 on the next one. When that is paid, you pay the next one the 120+20. (Remember the $20 you were sending them anyway?)
They are a pain. Just realize they are miserable. I had a collection agency in the same building at the last place I worked. Every break they were all out smoking like trains and complaining about what they do. Some even had to call the cops on people that came to the office threating them.
Try and make it the best for YOU, and don't worry about them.
Best,
Ryan
Evidently, the largest debt was just temporarily overlooked...But now that they are aware of the second debt, they are just trying to use scare tactics to get you to pay both debt now. Are both debt with the same creditor? Was this a collection company you contacted or the actual creditor? Either way, I would go ahead and safisfy the lowest debt and work on satisfying the $6000 debt at a later time. Unfortunately, this will remain on your bureau until otherwise. However, when you are in a better position...ie have cash on hand, I would negotiate the debt by 60%. And if they are still unwilling, I would continue to wait until they are ready to submit...and they eventually will. When this happens, make sure they send you something in writing showing they will agree to the discount before you actually send them the money...I would try and get them to fax you a letter...You know how stuff gets lost in the mail sometimes .
Good Luck!
Peace & Blessings~
P.S. I would wait a couple of weeks and call them back and see if they would be interested in settling the $600 debt; but of course at a discount. I would not bring up about the $6000 debt unless they bring it up...At that time, just let them know you are aware of the debt and you have intentions on clearing the debt, etc., etc,....
Ryno,
Good to hear from you, sounds like you have some knowledge on the credit agencies in Arizona.
I have no problem making the payments, but I want to know that it is going to be removed from my report, once it is paid. That is my major concern. And I don’t want to pay them anything if my credit is still going to be messed up. I could be using the money towards RE instead.
Good afternoon:
I have honestly had the exact same thing happen to me and guess what? If they were going to sue you, then they would have started the proceedings by now. I don't have good credit and I am in the process of removing negative items. I contacted creditors and got the same type of jerk that wanted me to think that he was outside my door with the FBI. The advice that the other members have been giving you is great and accurate. If your credit was at a score of 300 when you contacted this company, it is going to be 300 after you have made the decision to pay them at a later date.
I received a letter from a creditor recently that stated "we have tried to contact you regarding this debt. As the manager of your account, I have no other choice but to send this to our attorney. Please contact me with 48 hours from date of receipt of this letter".
At the closing of the letter it stated that no decison has been made to send the account to the attorney.
Wait a minute? In the beginning you said that you didn't have a choice but to send it and now you haven't made a decision?
The moral here is that he wanted me to be afraid of the beginning of the letter and call him immediately to pay the account. Well I didn't have the money and his threats were just that,...Threats.
They are scare tactics.
Just continue to make your offer on the first account. If you can't speak to him, speak to someone else. They are in the business of collecting the monies. The less money spent collecting, the more money in their pockets.
My advice to you is not to panick and work this credit situation like you work your REI deals. It's no different.
Toska
Toska,
Have you been able to remove the items, It is my understanding that until you have something in writing you have nothing. and you should not pay anything until it is in writing!
I don't know if the laws differ by states however, it is my understanding that if you, in good faith, have offered to make a payment plan and begin sending the payments to them, they cannot refuse your attempt to make payment. I mean really, imagine them in court! Your honor the defendant offered to pay off the small debt and make monthly payments on the other debt but we rejected her offer. They wouldn't even try it. Call Consumer Credit Counseling Service in your community and ask if this is correct. I believe it is. Like it or not, if you offer a payment plan, send the payment..they can't reject it. If they accept it thenm they have accepted your plan. They are playing hardball. They think yuou have the money hidden in the cookie jar somewhere and that if they scare you you'll crack it open.
The chances of them removing the item from your credit report are going to be slim and none.
This simply is not done anymore.
Everybody and their brother has written a book or sold somebody on the idea of getting a collection agency to delete the item with payment. You will be the 1 millionth person who tries this with them and they don't care about you or your credit report. The original creditor will not do business with them again if they delete this item from your credit file!
Those days are over.
You will end up with one of two things:
Collection closed written off.
Collection closed paid by consumer.
The second is the better of the two.
Here is the agreement I mailed them shouldn't I get this signed before I just mail them Payments?? I see how this helps???
As per our conversation, I am including an agreement to compromise my debt with you please sign and return this agreement to me at your earliest convenience. I will need the original as well as a faxed copy.
AGREEMENT TO COMPROMISE DEBT
(Creditor), referred to as CREDITOR and Kmaples, referred to as DEBTOR, agree to compromise the indebtedness due CREDITOR on the following terms and conditions: CREDITOR and DEBTOR agree that the present debt due is $(633.03). The parties agree that CREDITOR shall accept the sum of $(316.51) as full and complete payment on the debt. The acceptance of the payment will serve as a complete discharge of all monies due. The payment shall be made by cash or money order.
In addition, upon acceptance of the $(316.51), CREDITOR will notify all Credit Reporting Agencies that account is PAID AS AGREED, and delete any and all entries showing this account as ever being late. CREDITOR will forward copies of these notifications to DEBTOR. Furthermore, CREDITOR will provide a separate letter to DEBTOR stating the account number and that all sums were paid as agreed, and that there were never any late payments made on this account.
Please sign this letter, and return a copy to me. Upon receiving the original, I will forward a cashiers check for the above amount to you, at which point you will notify the three credit bureaus and mark this debt as satisfied on your records.
Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.
The questions to answer are as follows:
1. How old is the debt?
2. Is it older than 7yrs?
3. Do both belong to the same creditor?
If the debt is older than 7yrs contact the three-credit bureaus/ or whichever one the debt is showing on and have it removed from your credit report. Bad debt can only stay on your credit report for seven years from the date it was first considered bad debt with a few exception bankruptcy, which stays there for 10 years tax liens and child support.
If it is not older than seven years see if you can contact the original creditor and work something out. As all the other guys have stated collection agency are hard to deal with sometimes, but you can get what you want if you are persistent.
You can also try the dispute tactic through the credit bureau and that may get it off your credit report as well if the collection agency don’t reply within the allotted time. Your goal here is to get your credit straighten out and once you get it off your credit report I wouldn’t worry about paying them, their lost your gain. Depending on the age of the debt if they were going to sue you they would have done it already.
My 2 cent.
JeffJ
Jeffj,
Once the debt has been charged off, can you then deal with the creditor instead of the agency? Because I originally tried to contact the company and they transferred me to the agency. like they don't own it anymore.
So does that mean that when I contest it through the 3 bureau's they will contact the company and not the agency? Because that may mean the company has no record of the account. Meaning they may not be able to justify the debt and thus it must be removed, right?
Just thinking out loud. [ Edited by kmaples on Date 12/04/2003 ]
If it is a legitimate charge you can dispute it every day for the rest of your life, once the collection agency shows that the collection is legitimate the first time they do not have to keep looking into it.
That trick from fix my credit 101 doesn't work anymore.
Send your letter in and see what happens. The worst they will do is re contact you in regard to not honoring the agreement.
I would have to disagree with The Rehabinators comments below:
The chances of them removing the item from your credit report are going to be slim and none.
This simply is not done anymore.
Everybody and their brother has written a book or sold somebody on the idea of getting a collection agency to delete the item with payment. You will be the 1 millionth person who tries this with them and they don't care about you or your credit report. The original creditor will not do business with them again if they delete this item from your credit file!
Those days are over.
You will end up with one of two things:
Collection closed written off.
Collection closed paid by consumer.
The second is the better of the two.
Kmaples~
I am speaking from "experience"...And yes, the credit bureau...ie, all three of them removed the "$6000 derogatory debt from my report because it was "incorrect"...Now with the $600 debt you are trying to settle at a lesser amount...what will happen is once it has been settled, it will show on your report that it has been paid...
It takes time and patience...The key is, it can be done!
And yes, if the debt is 7yrs old, usually it is removed at this point...However though, just like real estate, paper ...ie, the mortgage note is always bought by another mortgage company. The same is true with collections. It is transfered through several hands at times.
Why not just send them what you can and commit to sending this amount every month (or whatever). Maybe $10 a month on the 600 and $20 a month on the other. Ball is then in theior court. If they understand that you cant pay more - there is something about blood and turnips.
Hello:
I was able to remove 7 items from my credit report. I mean totally deleted as if it never happened Mainly because the agency that my account was purchased from either didn't answer in enough time or didn't answer at all. I continued to dispute items over the internet and the outcome was great. I'm still trying to pay each one that did dispute little by little. Like everyone said, it will take time.
I would suggest offering your letter at least once a month until you get what you want or close to it. I've never heard of agencies removing an account after it has been paid whether it is was in collections or paid off on time. If it works for you, do share.
Something interesting did happen with one account. My account was purchased by Capital One Bank while I was negotiating (credit card company) and Capital One offered me $25.00 of unsecured credit for every $50.00 dollars paid on this debt. My limit would be no more than 500.00 but this may change in time. Now this was smart in my eyes. It wasn't the amount of credit to me, but a way to restore credit while I'm repairing it. The account was old and they weren't making progess with me because I simply didn't agree with what they were offering as a settlement and vice versa.
In the end the account is paid and shows on my credit as collection item, "paid by consumer" and closed but it also improves my credit. I don't have to use the credit but one thing I can say is that if I choose to use it, the card only says Visa and it doesn't give the way that I received it, i.e. paying off old debt. It also helps with reestablishing.
I've never heard one of these clear your credit card scam people tell me this.
These companies "in my eyes are overrated" and a waste of a consumer's money. You can definitely do it yourself. It just takes time, the time you waste calling a company for help.
The letter was great!!!
Toska
Quote:Everybody and their brother has written a book or sold somebody on the idea of getting a collection agency to delete the item with payment. You will be the 1 millionth person who tries this with them and they don't care about you or your credit report. The original creditor will not do business with them again if they delete this item from your credit file! The OC has no dog in this fight, and will always sell a portfolio of defaulted debt to the highest bidder, even if that bidder happens to be Mary Poppins or Satan. They don't care. Just want whatever small change they can get back. The CA may delete their entry for you ... but having bought the debt from the OC, they don't have any leverage over the OC, and the OC has no reason whatsoever to be cooperative in any way shape or form. The OC's CO (chargeoff) will still be there, even if the CA deletes. The CA will be a pain about deleting, but if it gets them a substantial chunk of change (high three-figures and up), they'll probably be willing to make the agreement and take the trouble. The CRAs don't want that done, but it won't even be the first sleazy thing the CA did that morning. As long as they don't do it that much (and they'll have to tell the CRA something like "placed in error"
the CRAs won't give them a hard time about violating contractual terms.
They knew those two debts were on your account before you even called. That's just a scare tactic. If they were going to "come after you" they would have done so by now instead of waiting for you to one day call.
Not saying that they won't take action, but if you are calling to make some arrangements, then do that. Let them threaten you all they want, I usually get sarcastic with them or totally ignore threats (they usually chill after that).
Make some payment arrangements ( I suggest using Consumer Credit Counseling b/c it doesn't go on your credit report) and pay them off.
Dee
Kmaples,
Everyone knows hind site is 20/20 and let me tell you if I would have had known about this site before I left my wife would have never done what she did (Bankruptcy). I would have eventually worked it out and I had the slightly higher debt then you did. Don't file work it out and remember not to dump all your money into paying off the debt! You have to live too so pay yourself then pay your bills. That sounds bad but you understand the point I am getting at. Banks and Mortgagers don't look at "B" all that nicely. If you look back in the forums we had a big discussion about "B" one that has since made me change my tune toward "B". Debt Collectors can't "Come after you" all they can do is sit behind that computer and tell you to pay up. Then again if you hang up on them they can't even do that.
My 2 cents
Jim
Dave Ramsey...the best in talk radio, no doubt. His show originates in Nashville. Listening to him encouraged my wife and myself to become debt free, which we have, all but the house.
Dave holds no punches when it comes to credit card companies and collection agencies.
Check him out at www.daveramsey.com. You can listen to him live every day between 1 and 4 central time. Has excellent advice and a course called Financial Peace University. This is not an advertisement...I listen to him every day.
He performs a great service.
Some answers:
First, paying a collection does not improve your credit - chances are it will keep it on your report longer. Quite often a collection agency will delete in exchange for payment, but you have to word your offer just right to get them to take, and to be able to enforce it.
Collection agents would rather cross the street and climb a tree to tell a lie than to standt where they are and tell you the truth. Never ever trust what they say. Get everything in writing.
Credit cards are always open accounts under the UCC, so the SOL for open accounts applies.
When you dispute an item on your credit report, it must be verifies within 30 days or it must be deleted.
Never ever send documentation to a CRA. They will keep it and use it against you in the future. Be paranoid about it.
When a debt collector first contacts you, it is your right (FDCPA) to challenge the debt even if you know it is yours. To do this, you send a letter that says, in effect, "prove that this debt is mine first..." Often, acollction agency does not purchase documentation when they purchase debts, so they just won't bother with you, they will go on to greener pastures.
You don't want "paid collection" or "paid chargeoff" on your report - it is just as bad as unpaid. You want them deleted. Period.
If a debt is past the statute of limitations, the best thing to do is NOT pay it. The system is so screwed up it's unreal. A person who pays actually hurts themselves, by getting the debt reported for longer than if they are simply a good deadbeat and don't pay at all.
Opting out with the credit bureaus saves youa lot of time and hassle, because the CRA's will actually sell you name to collection agencies any time there is activity on your report, so the CA's will continue to crawl out from under their rocks and try to get you to pay by any means necessary.
Get them off your report and out of your hair. Then, if you want to make right on the debts, save up enough to at least settle for a decent amount, and go back to original creditor with an offer. Or, my choice, since the system is so screwed up - donate the money to a worthy charity, and let your conscience rest from it all.
If the system worked, if the laws were enforced, if the debts weren't multiplied over and over, if the reporting were accurate and fair, I would say pay them. But it isn't.
Don't.
Most of the major credit cards and retailers write off their debts when they view them as uncollectable. Then they sell groups of debts at great discount to collection agencies who will often resort to methods shy of the truth to squeeze every possible dollar out of you. If your debt has been sold to a collection agency, you can "fire" them with a cease and desist letter. Email me for a sample letter. Also, CCC is a scam perpetuated by credit card issuers. Neither has your interests even slightly in mind.
Unexpected life events cause good people to lose their good credit all the time. Keep your head up and don't let the bottomfeeders impede your RE success.
Best,
Warren
If you have two accounts at one agency that add up to $6646.30 I wouldn’t get to excited, unless they know were you work. First rule never contact a collection agency and/or let them contact you (that is why caller I.D. was invented.) I would have send them $5.00 and/or denied it, but now that you have opened up the can of worms, (because they now know it’s really you) $20.00 is good.
From my younger years (working for a few collection agencies) the collector will just walk your account over to their attorney at 5 pm. The attorney will ask the collector does he know if you have a job or does he think you have any money, then he will put it along with a post-it note in a big pile of other files on his desk as a good chance and/or no chance to collect.
Now if you send them $20.00 with your account number on it (use a Money Order, because collectors love bank account numbers on the bottom of checks) the Agency will take it out of the attorney's office, and give it the office clerk and they should leave you alone. The collector you talked to may never even see your account again, unless you stop paying the $20.00.
If the rest of the $20,000.00 ($13,353.70) is not in collections, just send them $5.00 or $20.00 per month as well. The rule is if you’re paying something monthly we will leave you alone. Also if you are making monthly payments you can’t negotiate a payoff.
The other advice on the forum was excellent!
Quote:
On 2003-12-04 14:11, kmaples wrote:
Millionaire,
I guess I am not doing this the right way then. Because my intention was to settle the smallest first ($600) and continue until all had be resolved or removed. But not to my knowledge they had record of two debts in which they wanted both accounted for. So I should wait and contact them later? and try agian. I guess I don't understand how this will help me restore my credit.
I don't understand why they wont work with me when I am making an attempt to pay this off. Why would I pay off one, and then not pay the other. that makes no sense, so why do the require both paid?
A rational debt collection agency would allow you to pay on one of the two debts. Now, they might require you to pay first on the one that's closest to the Statute of Limitations, but they'd still let you work on one account at a time.
Clearly, there's lots that is irrational about the collections business. Much of the irrationality is simply rational responses to the collective irrationality of the masses of debtors they deal with.
Perhaps it's all too much trouble for them.
The bottom line is if you're not happy with the way you're being treated, I'd suggest going the Debt Validation route CMRRR and 30 days after the date on the green card dispute all the tradelines from this agency on your TU/EX/EQ reports to try to get the agency to rack up FDCPA violations by verifying without having properly validated. I'd also document each and every contact from them after they fail to properly validate (which they almost undoubtedly will).
Then I would use those violations (at $1k/pop if you prove 'em in court) as leverage to settle the claims they have for deletion of the negative tradelines ... and for 30-50 cents on the dollar.
Start taping them on the phone. Don't tell them you're taping, ask them if they're taping you and they'll say "yes" ... then you can tape to your heart's content without telling them, and they won't be able to explain to any court why you couldn't tape when they told you they were taping you. They'll say plenty of things on the phone that violate the FDCPA, they just can't help themselves.
If you give them enough rope, they will hogtie and then hang themselves. And you can make money on the whole affair.
Don't give in to fear.
READ YOUR STATE STATUES ON BAD DEBTS!!!!!
MAKE SURE YOU DON"T RENEW THE BEBT IF THE STATUE OF LIMITATIONS HAS RUN OUT!
Just my .02 cents...
Camel Merchant
You have rec'd some quite good information, in particular in the most recent posts. I'll add a bit more information that will benefit you with this problem. I hate credit collectors, and reporting ****Must Reach Freshman Investor status before posting URL's***dit agencies,
For your benefit, do get a copy of the fair credit reporting act, to learn your rights.
You filed to mention (that I saw) the age of the debt. As mentioned earlier, it might be at/near the statute of limitations. And will have to drop off your credit report in 7 years from the date of last activity. Which includes any payment. Write the creditors and demand to get a copy of the original contract that created the debt. If it is over 2 years old, they likley will not have it, or have it on micro film, and they can nbot provide proof of your debt. They will have 30 to 60 days max, to provide you such. (Do all you correspondence with the via registered mail, with a receipt they have to sign for. For your proof) If they unable to provide such, and advise you of such, send them a demand letter that they remove the degrogatory reporting from your credit records, as it is their burden to prove the debt or remove it. Also send registered letters to the 3 major reporting agencies disputing the claim, and they;ll have to prove it (as well, or remove it) If the credit collection agency has purchased your deliquent account, send them a demand letter as well, to prove the debt (by sending you a copy of the original debt instrument that created the debt) It is doubtful they will be able to. And they have to prove or remove the negative information from the credit bureau(s). Also you may tell them you do not have an account with them.
If you do a compromise payment with anyone get your agreement confirmed in writing before making any oayment(s) Insist they report it as being paid as agreed. Do not accept it showing as paid collection, or paid charge off, as the 7 year clock starts on the last activity on the account, including your having paid it off. If they will not give you written confirmation of your agreement... Do not pay it/them.
Good luck to you with this matter.
A few little tips - BIG tips actually - never ever give a collection agency a check, or a credit card number. They are known for cleaning out your account using fake check numbers like 99999. They'll run e-checks through your account regularly, getting whatever money they can get. Same with a credit card or debit card.
If you have to call them, do it from a pay phone, not your home phone. It's best to just not talk to them once the account has been charged off and sold. Accounts MUST be charged off after 180 days of continuous delinquency. That should give you a clue whether the account has been assigned or sold. If it has not been charged off, it will have been assigned to the collection agency (fairly recent delinquency). If it has been charged off, it will have been sold, for pennies on the dollar, and you are not repaying your debt, you are allowing that CA to make a profit off your misfortune, bad judgment, or whatever.
Better to donate that money to charity! JMO.
I want to thank everyone who has helped me in this incredibly confusing and complicated process with my intent to repair and restore my credit to its once pristine condition. I still have many questions and probably will have many more going forward.
I am in the process of establishing the age of each account, depending on the last activity.
-Is there anything else that can restart the 7 years other than a payment to the account?
[ Edited by kmaples on Date 01/02/2004 ]
Quote:
On 2003-12-04 20:43, voluminous wrote:
Hello:
...
Something interesting did happen with one account. My account was purchased by Capital One Bank while I was negotiating (credit card company) and Capital One offered me $25.00 of unsecured credit for every $50.00 dollars paid on this debt. My limit would be no more than 500.00 but this may change in time. Now this was smart in my eyes. It wasn't the amount of credit to me, but a way to restore credit while I'm repairing it. The account was old and they weren't making progess with me because I simply didn't agree with what they were offering as a settlement and vice versa.
In the end the account is paid and shows on my credit as collection item, "paid by consumer" and closed but it also improves my credit. I don't have to use the credit but one thing I can say is that if I choose to use it, the card only says Visa and it doesn't give the way that I received it, i.e. paying off old debt. It also helps with reestablishing.
I've never heard one of these clear your credit card scam people tell me this.
Taking them up on this offer is playing with fire.
If you look over on http://www.creditinfocenter.com or http://www.creditboards.com, Crap1 has been accepting the applications then sending the account straight to a lawyer in one case, in another case they just dropped a brand new charge-off listing to the credit bureaus.
It may have worked out for you. But for others it has been a nightmare.
YMMV, but be careful ... Crap1 is crafty, and if your debt is large, or your financial situation isn't bad ... Crap1 may be tempted to play games with your application.
The thread at creditinfocenter is called "the offer you can't refuse"![ Edited by flacorps on Date 01/02/2004 ]
Here it is. You may need to register:
http://debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11841
why do I keep reading 7 years until the SOL will drop it off my credit report?????
When I looked up the SOL it stated 3 years for open accounts; 6 years for written contracts????
So how do I know what I am dealing with?
Quote:
and the much shorter dates beyond which you have the affirmative defense of "Statute of Limitations" which you can plead (or neglect to plead and forfeit) if you're sued beyond those dates.
On 2004-01-02 16:20, kmaples wrote:
why do I keep reading 7 years until the SOL will drop it off my credit report?????
When I looked up the SOL it stated 3 years for open accounts; 6 years for written contracts????
So how do I know what I am dealing with? <IMG SRC="images/forum/smilies/icon_confused.gif">
You have a confusion between the reporting dates (check Google for "FCRA"
The 7-year reporting period shouldn't be confused with the SOL.
so all the SOL does is protect me from being sued? and it will remain on my report until the full 7 years is up. right?
Quote:
On 2004-01-02 16:34, kmaples wrote:
so all the SOL does is protect me from being sued? and it will remain on my report until the full 7 years is up. right?
Hardly. You have a ton of crafty options for getting it off your reports. Read up.
Don't freak out man - take the great advise here and run with it.
C-
the collector
Don't freak out man - take the great advise here and run with it.
C-
the collector
I apologize if I am asking stupid questions, I just want to know everything possible before i put my foot in my mouth. Thanks for all the support.
Your questions are far from stupid. You are entering a world where deceipt is the coin of the realm. That little disclaimer at the bottom of their letters stating "We are attempting to collect a debt and any information we gather...." is mandated by law. Be very certain that they will do just that given the chance.
I would advise you to not even communicate with them verbally. If the messages they leave are threatening or if they continue calling after a cease and desist letter, tape the answer machine message to a digital recorder. Then write them a letter like this:
"An agent of your firm has been recorded violating federal law. This letter will serve as your legal notice under provisions of federal law to cease all communication in reference to any alleged debt.
Should you fail to heed this notice, I will file a formal complaint and provide evidence of your violation of the law to the Federal Trade Commission, the US Attorney General, the State Attorney General and the State Bar Association.
Not only do I dispute the existence of any “debt”, under no circumstance would I ever work with a collection agency.
You are notified that any adverse information placed against my credit as a result of this notice will trigger the exploration of all possible legal remedies against your firm.
I trust this most important matter will receive your immediate and favorable attention."
In Texas, I believe the SOL is 4 years but it varies from state to state.
If your conscience bothers you, donate somthing to charity. Giving money to those cretins will not only spur more activity against you but will further perpetuate an industry lacking honor.
My free advice - worth all you paid for it
Good luck, man.
Warren
I just stumbled onto this provision of the FCRA: Quote:§ 810. Multiple debts [15 USC 1692h]
If any consumer owes multiple debts and makes any single payment to any debt collector with respect to such debts, such debt collector may not apply such payment to any debt which is disputed by the consumer and, where applicable, shall apply such payment in accordance with the consumer's directions.
Maples,
While it is honorable of you to want to honor your debts, the fact that you paid them is not going to signficantly change your credit in the near term.
That being the case and if you want to invest in real estate either to have a place of your own or for investment purposes, get out there and get a place.
Although I am not an attorney, others here could probably guide you with more authority, but take that $600 and get a good RE attorney to create an LLC to put your property into.
The debt collectors are not going to get it if you do that.
By the way...how old are those debts? One reason that the collection agency may be hot to get you is that after 7 years, these things come off of your credit report.
If that is the case (you are getting close to having these removed through time), then you have suffered enough!
Do the right thing in the future, because as you are already too aware, keeping good credit is work. But it is also worth it. (Voice of experience here of someone who now has a 700+ rating) I have gone through my credit purgoatory and make sure that I don't commit to what I can't pay and don't buy on credit if I can help it otherwise. I try to pay off my credit cards monthly, but never leave it open at year's end.
Hope that helps.
John
Gentlemen, and you others.
You are looking at the dilema of life in these modern times.
No they cannot obtain judgement in a court of law without due notification to you so you can be there present. I know they try and sometimes very hard to obtain a default judgement, but the courts are pretty hep to this and it seldom happens. If it does do not give up, just go down find your case and then take steps to handle the matter. You can always dispute the judgement and the win basis of this type of action is very good.
My advice, dear sir, is to sit on your hands. Do nothing, if they call give them the little flakes reply. "On behalf of Counsel I must advise you to cease and desist this harrasssment. Yeah, also always ask for their name and number. Some may even give it to you. Most will mumble a lot and hang up.
Some time in the future, I would suggest you visit one of the many little shops set up by the local Bar or Friends of Court or whatever. Find a nice young newly branded atty. Explain that you want a clear run for awhile and in exchange for this assistance you will introduce him to your niece who suffers from extreme whatever or even better you will include him in your upward push to be rich and as you gain why so shall he. Slap him on the back, call him Sir. Ask if Esq. means that he is a Knight or Lord or some other dumb thing. Come on play the game, you are dealing with little people who sit in tiny little containers and make calls. I can't tell you how many calls I make on behalf of my close personal flacky friends, would be friends , wanna be friends.
So get back on track do your thing, become rich, but damn never pay back dollar for dollar, cause you know and I know you never got a correct value.
Sic em Lucius
A couple of years ago we had a cell phone for my husband's daughter on a 1 year contract.
The use was beyond the one year as she was still using it, the bill was being paid every month.
The phone got dropped by her, we got a new phone for $ 35.00 because we had insurance on it - teenagers have slippery fingers! - then she dropped it again, we got another one for $ 35.00.
She left the house, we canceled the cell phone, paid the bill and told Cingular that we won't be needing it anymore. Case closed.... closed???? Forget it.
We got a bill for 533.00. What for? I asked Cingular. They said we broke the contract. What contract? The one year contract. Now, how long is a year? 12 months, 24 months, 36 months?
They said 12 months. So how come that we broke the one year contract after 3 1/2 years of using it? We still broke the contract. But how??? I did not pay that bill.
Enter... collection agency, same story.
This harassment went on for about 1 year.
I called Cingular and told them to order the collection agency off of our backs, since we had complied with the contract and have all our bills paid to them, what more do you want?
They wanted.... $ 288.00. To make a long story short. Every time we got a new cell phone for $ 35.00, because we had insurance, there was a new 1 year contract (nowhere to be found in the paperwork, not even in the finest of finest print) they said "everybody" knows that. Well, I am not everybody, but somebody, so therefore I didn't know!
My husband became very upset with all the phone calls, so I called Cingular again and just paid them the $ 288.00 to get it over with! End of story.
End of story??? No way, the collection agency wanted the $ 533.00, they had nothing more to do with Cingular, they bought the debt, and wanted their money. They kept harassing us for months and months! Any time they called I just hung up, they stopped calling about 7 months ago. I told my husband to NOT talk to them and just hang up. He did.
I threw away $ 288.00 to get some peace. It shows as bad on my credit report and on his' too. Well, too bad.
Unfortunately I also have a cell phone with Cingular, never broke the phone though.
I plan on changing to another company and keep my number, now that that is possible. No more Cingular for me!
Ladybug
Quote:
End of story??? No way, the collection agency wanted the $ 533.00, they had nothing more to do with Cingular, they bought the debt, and wanted their money. They kept harassing us for months and months! Any time they called I just hung up, they stopped calling about 7 months ago. I told my husband to NOT talk to them and just hang up. He did.
I threw away $ 288.00 to get some peace. It shows as bad on my credit report and on his' too.You might want to post your story over on http://www.creditboards.com or http://www.creditnet.com or in http://www.creditinfocenter.com's discussion groups ... seems to me the insurance was worthless ... you could have gotten the $35 replacement phone w/o insurance any time you wanted to give them an extra year.
In any case, it's time to clear this CA off your CRA reports. No need to live with that. See if you can rack up some FDCPA violations on them and make some money on this whole affair in addition to getting them off your back and off your reports. [ Edited by flacorps on Date 01/03/2004 ]
kmaples,
So many of us have been in your shoes for one reason or another. My sympathies to you, but also a word of advice: Do not get discouraged or afraid.
This site is all about creative ways to work things out. Of course, dealing with a collection agency, especially those that love to make threats, isn't the most fun negotiation. But just remember that you have the money and they don't.
The only way they can control you is to make you feel guilty, lower than dirt, or scared.
Once they see they can't scare you, and it may take awhile to keep talking with them until they come around to working with you, they'll try and work out something reasonable.
My personal advice is to do this yourself. Attorney's will only do what you can do for yourself, and end up spending more of your money.
You know when you make an offer to a distressed seller, how you give them a time limit? You do so as a 'take-away' so they'll be motivated to take your deal.
The www.5p.m. limit, or they'll come after you is just that. They is nothing they can do. Are they really going to go to court and get a judgment on you? Doubtful. Even if they get a judgment, its another thing to collect on it. Bascially garnishment of wages or accounts, and both can be avoided.
Just get mad and tough at them and keep sticking to the deal you want. Keep us informed! We all like to hear how creditors get their butts whipped!
kmaples,
I have first hand experience with what you are going through.
1) Write a letter explaining that you are requesting that thier agency not contact you by phone any more. Any farther contact by phone will be considered harassment and you will report it as such. (When you state this, this means you need to make future contacts by mail also.)
2) State in your letter exactly what you feel you can do and not a penny more. If you make a commitment, you need to be able to comply. You can also state that if you see there is no way to settle this matter, then your only other option would be to file CH. 7. (This is a statement only. This is not saying you are going to file or that I suggest you file. JUST A STATEMENT)
3) If you know the account number and the creditor to which this debt is owed, you can actually send a check with the creditor and account # in the for area as a sign of good faith.
4) If this is not accepted or you don't hear anything else, just drop that particular bill til a later date. Normally what happens is when the creditor gives up, the collection agencies will pick up the accounts and get a portion of what they can collect. If after some time they can't collect, the maybe another collection agency my pick the account up and attempt to collect.
5) make sure you send this letter CERTIFIED where you get proof of delivery as well as the accepter. This give you proof that they did receive the letter.
6) On your letter in the "TO:" section, addreess it to the person you spoke to or the company. On the next line CC an copy to LEGAL FILE. (Make sure you keep a copy for your records.
7) If you get another phone call from them contact the BBB and Chambers of Commerce in thier city and report their activities. Even though you owe the debt, you do have rights and there are legal guidelines that collection agencies are suppose to follow. Some don't but the consumer in most cases don't know thier rights.
Hope this helps.......
Per FDCPA
§ 810. Multiple debts [15 USC 1692h]
If any consumer owes multiple debts and makes any single payment to any debt collector with respect to such debts, such debt collector may not apply such payment to any debt which is disputed by the consumer and, where applicable, shall apply such payment in accordance with the consumer's directions.
Had a similar occasion. So I filed an action in a Small Claims Court, had a lot of fun finding a point of service, but I did and when they did not answer I took the default Judgement.
I then abstracted the judgement and I got a nice check. Yes I was naughty I over plead the amount. Simple solution.
Lucius
Hang in there, Kevin
Regards and Happy New Year,
Ed
If you want to pay then just call them back at the end of the month. The very last day. Be sure to call them before 5pm. This is close-out day for them and they take darn near anything to get their numbers up. Not just for commission but for ranking with their clients. On this day is when they are the most vunerable to settlements.
When talking to them you can always keep going up the chain of command. When you start talking about reporting them to the state they will quickly move you to someone who can make quick decisions.
If all else fails and they actually do something that is in violation of the FDCPA then threaten them with a lawsuit in writing. They will throw $1000 at you pretty quickly just to make you go away.
I'd call them up with just enough time to get certified funds to them by Fedex before the end of the month.
If you call on the last day, you would have to allow them access to your bank account or give them a credit card authorization, and that could be a gigantic mistake because they are overreaching bastards (I'll stop just short of saying they steal, because of course, they feel they're owed).
flacorps,
It's not as bad as you make it sound. When comparing the 'overreaching' organizations to the rest of industry the percentage is pretty low. However, I agree that I wouldn't let them into my bank account. I made that mistake once with AOL many years ago. Send the payment via Western Union.
If they did overreach by taking too much from your account then you will have them over a barrel. And they will settle pretty quickly.
BTW....be sure to get a settlement letter from them before giving them the funds.