Help! Bum Tenants Want To Cut A Deal............
Ok they dont pay for 2 mos now their attorney tells my attorney they are claiming uninhabitability which wont fly because this place has undergone so many inspections by outsiders in the sale transaction, they have never complained...cent H/A is new....Ive paid for carpet they havent scheduled to have installed ..... tenant is a local biz owner (car repair shop) and they are now wanting to cut a deal to be out by the first and they wont pay us the 1800 they owe. Im guessing we get to keep the deposit, lol. I want to make sure this goes on their credit....they BK'd 3 years ago and talked of buying. Im already out the $. I dont really want to let them walk.....I think thats BS.......any advise? Need fast my attorney is waiting.
You don't really give enough information for anyone to give you their opinion, namely, what exactly is the "deal?"
Roger
sorry...In my heated furor over the whole thing I typed really fast.......
In a big Nut shell~
We bought place Last Sept.
Tenants were shocked at the rent increase of course. Have paid late multiple times. Big family sob story for March rent so not paid until almost april and they didnt include late fee that they agreed to (the past lates I didnt push ) so I sent it back & told them to resend the right amount. Then April of course doesnt get sent.
So I go in april to give a 3day quit for April and asked him for the March rent. I told him I would accept march rent without fees. He said "uh no not paying today but I will let my attorney know". So tired of d*cking around on this I go to my Real estate attorney and tell him to just Evict. So basically they have not paid for March or April. Their attorney is a criminal attorney (Im sure they have a past relationship) not a realestate or legal aid guy. Also this attorney told them to pay the March rent and to send it certified just as we did our "send the rent" letter that month.
Anyway the attorney calls my attorney because they have now been served and says "the tenants would like to offer a deal.....they will leave by the first" thats basically it.....no paying the 2 mos they owe us for..just they will leave. Well after thinking about it ...1)we are already out the 2 mos already....done paid those mortgage pmts.....2)I dont have the time right now to rush up there and get ready for next renters....and 3)the sherriff will get them out without me getting paid anyway so what do I have to gain from their deal. Already paid the attorney....Got lots of cost to right off......
They have til Monday to file an answer to the Unlawful Detainer so we told our attorney that the way we see it so far,we dont have anything to gain from their offer, but alot of work I dont have time to do right now ( I know thats not a consideration of course) and no chance of a judgement against them. He is a local biz owner and she works for a school district. They BK'd already so I would prefer to stick a judgement on their credit as they spoke of buying in the future and i know most lenders will require that judgement be satisfied. The criminal attorney stated their case was based on "uninhabitability" which makes me laugh because I have a pest report, a home inspection report, a signed condition of property list from them dated less than 8 mos ago, a new Cent h/a unit in addition to a one year home warranty they have yet to need, in addition....we understood the big jump in rent was a shock so we asked what they wanted upgraded in the house.....she said she really wanted new carpet.......so I paid for it last Dec for tax purposes and it still sits at Ol carpets R us.....(maybe we were suppose to come move their furniture for them). Also just as a side bar, they have an outstanding garbage bill and aquired 2 more dogs. I do have written in our contract that they agreed to have all bills paid to vacating date or deposit would be used.
So I think what we are going to do is just sit and wait til Monday and not be in a hurry to cut a deal. The only deal Im interested in is 2 mos rent and get out by the first without damage. But Im not gonna sign something that says I dont have future recourse for judgement without a guarentee of condition and the rent Im owed? Im eating the fees and court costs and attorney already.
Im sorta looking forward to a court room visit if need be and I hear on uninhabitability cases in this county the judge likes to take field trips. The way I see it right now I only have to gain from the experience.....If they arent gonna make it worth my while to have them leave....I prefer the experience.
What do you think?
Look, let 'em go. A tenant with a decent attny in CA can probably drag out an eviction case three or four more months. A smart attny who knows eviction law could get them six. I once dragged out an eviction case in a commercial deal for 18 months and then settled cause the other side figured out they were not really any closer to getting rid of me than they were on day one.
Agree to a 10 day continuance on the eviction case on Monday. If they are gone and the house is clean you'll drop the matter there (you keep the SD which means you are only one month behind). If not you'll pursue.
You can always decide after they are gone that the house wasn't clean enough.
The longer they stay, the more expensive it'll be. If they walk by the 1st, you can cut your losses. The ONLY people that win in courts like that are lawyers, you aren't gonna get any more money out of them.
Hopefully you can have them set out on the street before they leave. Go ahead and after the eviction or them leaving take pictures of the condition they leave the house in for use in court. Then go about getting the house ready for the next tenant. Go to court and get the judgement and file it on their credit report.
As difficult I know this is for you, or anyone in your situation, try to step away from the emotional side of this. Yes they are deadbeat tenants to owe you a lot of money. But they are also deadbeat tenants who can cause you even more problems, including dragging this thing out even longer and then trashing the place when they finally need to move out. Cut your losses. Your number one goal should be to get them out of your property as soon as possible and with as little damage to your property as possible. Once they're out and you can sleep at night, then you can investigate ways of impacting their creadit and getting some revenge. But right now, get them out ASAP.
Good luck.
[addsig]
You've received some excellent advice above. Your best bet is to let them go and forget about "getting even." This is a business. Try not to let your personal feelings get in the way here.
First, as stated above, get a continuence on your eviction/judgement proceeding.
Second, respond that you'll accept the offer on the condition that the security deposit is forfeited (already has been since violation of lease), and that the property is thoroughly CLEANED and without damages. Be specific on your cleaning requirements'; carpets vaccumed, floors mopped, windows washed, stove/range clean, etc. Trust me, their idea of clean may not be yours, so if you still have to go to court, you don't want this area vague.
If they are gone by the first and the place is clean, then count yourself lucky, put your "for rent" sign in the yard, and go about your business.
Roger
Just wondering why we small time landlords always give the advice to let them walk. Don't get me wrong, I have paid a tenant to leave also. But you never see apartment complexes or many management companies letting bad tenants walk. And surely they are the professionals. They have their rules and they stick to them. I can only guess that their rules are in place to minimize their costs and maximize their profit. What is so different between the professionals and us small guys? Why would we do something so very different from them?
Brenda
Brenda
My thinking is that small property landlords tend to own several properties in different locations. But each property only has a few tenants. If we take this approach, all of our tenants won't necessarily know about it. With large complexes, if they get soft on one unit, everyone in the complex finds out and then you might end up having to do this all the time with every problem tenant in the complex. That's a huge problem waiting to happen. Two other things also. Many large complexes are managed by a property management company. The owner is hands off, and the management is more interested in following procedure than in quickly resolving a problem. And the final reason I think this happens, is because large owners tend to have deeper pockets and can afford to fight it out and let a unit be empty for a while. That's how it looks to me.
Brenda,
us "small time" landlords are giving this advice because a good procedure was not followed in the first place, either due to lack of experience or kind heartedness. These tenants where late and lacking from the beginning it sounds. From experience, I now know what is coming when you tenants start getting behind, but I had to learn the hard way, and now have guidelines to prevent it.
At this point in the deal (or lack there of), we're just trying to get BMan back into this property with the least amount of $$$ out of his pocket. Again, from experience, that would be just to let them walk, on the condition that the property is cleaned and not damaged.
If these are savvy tenants, they could be in there a long time without paying, not to mention the damage that they could cause. Much better to just cut the losses and start over.
Roger
I really appreciate all of the comments. It really helps to have people who can get past the emotion and unfortunately...in law...there is no right an wrong.....just winner and loser. As it sits right now we are just waiting to see if they file an answer to the UD and if so we will cut a deal and if not we will get them out and pursue a judgement later. I got a letter from attorney w/pics saying the tenants "elect to vacate on or about May 1st due to the said un-inhabitabitability." Setting aside emotion and my hard lesson learned (landlords are never to be the nice guy) I hope to just get the property back quick...keep ya posted
Lot's of good advise....However, and read this knowing I am not an attorney, much less a California RE attorney. If they are basing their case on uninhabitability, they are required, at least by Ohio law to have paid the rent money to an escrow account held by the court. Your attorney should know that, otherwise their atty is blowing smoke. I would quite possibly call their bluff. My question is, after you agree with their attorney to let them clear out by the end of the month, and they don't, (been there done that) where are you? Back to square one. Don't take my word for it. Ask your attorney. That's why you pay him $160.00 per hour. If he doesn't know, get another attorney. Also, brush up yourself on CA landlord tenant law. It's available on the net for free....At least Ohio law is.
Good Luck,
Shawn(OH)
I am not familiar with the law that you have mentioned here in CA and my atty didnt say anything either. I do plan on calling their bluff. This is a unit that I bought just last year and they were inherited with it. I had home inspections (with pics) and a termite report and some of their pics show that they have created many of the problems....anyways we are letting them play their cards right now and DO NOT plan on agreeing to anything...I thinkl they may have used the last 2 mo rent to pay a deposit and rent on a new place and will be gone May 1 anyways...I will be out no more as my atty charges a set fee for evictions (and he isnt giving any refunds) so I might as well let them leave and then pursue it......We will see if after all this if they even respond to the eviction charge in court and if they dont we will have the sheriff out to assist in removing before they are ready ........anyways I appreciate all of the responses and do weigh all of them seriously but we are chalking this up to an education on crappy tenants.......and what it takes to get a jusgement and collect next time we may find it easier to just let them go......I have time and feel we will get our money eventually.........will keep you posted on what pans out
If they don't have proof that they made these claims in writing, I can't see how they would have a leg to stand on. I thought that was standard procedure everywhere. Best of luck getting your money, but I wouldn't get my hopes to high.
bgrossnickle
I used to be a big apartment landlord and we let people walk all the time. Sometimes even paid them to leave. The reason the big complexes tend to follow the proceedure is that they don't have anybody on-site who is authorized to make changes/do deals to get the place empty. The relative inefficiency of this system is offset by the greater efficiency of having many units close together and a generally lower per-unit acquistion cost and better financing.
Let them go.
Just think about it. In 15 minutes how much damage can they do to your home? A couple of gallons of paint thrown over your carpets, walls and roof. Cement poured down the drain so the drain has to be dug up and replaced. Every window broken. Every door with a hole in it. The furnace smashed and the stove, fridge and appliances trashed.
So you get a judgement against them. So what? They have judgements against them already. They don't care. You will have to prove it is them that did the damage and how are you going to do that?
When you returned last months rent, you refused to accept payment and gave them a good defence. I understand it was short, but the judge will say they tried to pay and you refused. Next time accept anything they give you and issue a three day notice to pay or quit based on the remaining amount, not including any late fees or penalties or anything else owed or your eviction will be struck down.
Your insurance policy may have a clause that damage caused by a tenant is not covered.
If you end up in court a month or two from now, they are going to swear that it is uninhabitable. My tenants said that the water was off for a few hours and the judge awarded them the case based on this. Are you going to hire experts to testify that the house is in good shape. How long do you think it will take them to clog the toilet and overflow it, take pictures and swear in court that they told you about it?
Make sure your attorney draws up a "Stipulation" when you let them go. That means that if they stay you can get your eviction order faster.
I would definately evict them. As someone mentioned above, they can agree to leave on a certain date but if they don't you will have to start with the eviction anyhow. Also, although it is possible they could trash your place I think that is generally overblown. Probably 95% of people will just leave although they certainly are not going to clean the place. Even people who get foreclosed on will rarely trash a place. You almost owe it to your fellow landlords in my opinion to make certain these kind of folks get something in their records to warn other people. Evictions are not that easy to hide.
well heres the latest......and I appreciate everyones different opinion on the matter...a big part of this is knowing who your tenants are what they do and judging the situation on that. We informed our atty that we WOULD NOT accept them just walking and that we wanted full 2 months rent we would waive all court costs and atty fees, otherwise we would go to court.....and yes we do have pros that just did reports when we purchased and lots of pics to go with them...(hom inspection and termite, as well as a hom warranty to cover anything major)..The lawyer let them know we wouldnt roll over and they agreed to pay us in full up to the 8th of May and we insisted that it be in writing that if they thrash the place we can and will go after a judgement against them for that............He (tenant) is a local auto repairman who owns his own business in a small town....she is an employee for a public school district......they would have had to sacrifice a lot more than just their credit scores over this to just walk and we knew it.......they wouldnt walk away from their business/job.....anyways this may still be a stall tactic but the lawyer is writing up the agreement for them to sign and pay as I write this.....I agree with the last post...Landlords roll over and hurt each other by not dealing with these a$$'s.......They have already secured another rental (probably) and now they become that persons issue.....sure they lied their way into it because any GOOD landlord would have checked with last landlord.......and ran a credit check.....both would have told us NO to these people but as stated somewhere these people were inherited when we bought the property... will post up a final when it is done.....
Problem resolved.....money in hand property returned and they tried to get it cleaned up to get their deposit back.......Too bad their dog chewed on the siding and they didnt pay their trash bill and they owe for 2 months worth of late fees or they might have actually gotten some of it back.........Now got to get in and refurb............Looks like this time the Landlord won....maybe if more of us didnt roll over it would happen more often.......
Brian
Well, I had a similar case. T. was behind several months on an all utilities included studio. When they figured I would start eviction, they first destroyed the gas wall heater and then called Code Enforcement. So C.E. gave them a letter stating they don't have to pay rent and could not get evicted. B.S.! An evcition attorney told me to post a 3 Days' Pay or Quit Notice... They left 3 bad $ 500 checks and stole a TV & sat receiver worth $ 600. But they are gone.
NEVER EVER "DEAL" WITH TENANTS! And be it in SCC (after they move) or a normal Unlawful detainer judgement, every day you delay will cost you $$.
I would use a specialist law firm which does evictions for a flat fee. They don't fool around - something your attorney appears to have been doing.
Start by using a "credit reporting service". I know one is on ****This URL Not allowed****.com and do a search on the internet. There is NTN etc. $ 20 well worth it. - You d o know their SSN? Good!
Let's hope these scoundrels won't wreck the house in a misguided attempt to get away without paying. www.spoa.com has some tales of this game.
It really, really sucks I know. You just don't want to let your emotions get the best of you here. Sounds like these tenants know what they are doing. May have done this before. Thyey can drag this out for months, then you are out more rent. You are just gonna have to bite the bullet here, get them out, get it ready and re-rent it, then go to court and get your judgement. Sorry.