Residential / Office Area Zoning Question.
Hi guys, i have found some property in a very quick growing town next to mine. A very large developer has bought all the land around this property which is currently zoned residential / agricultural.
No construction has yet started but I feel that in the spring it will on those homes.
I don't want to build homes, but rather a commercial strip kind of complex with parking. The property is 2.0 acres. It is on a very busy street which will one day be widened. The city hall today told me that the primary zoning is for residential, but if I apply, i can get a Residential / Ofice Area zoning. What does this mean?
The price that the guy wants right now is 749,000. Its wayyyy too much, but I am gonna low ball him and hope that he goes for it since nobody will give him 749,000. If I get this property rezoned, does the value of the property (by the way their is a house on the property occupied) go up? and by how much?
One more question, what kinda of development complex would that be if it was Residential/Office Area. Does that mean that I can have apartments on the second floor and commerical retail stores for lease on the first floor or what does it mean, can someone give me an example?
Thanx.
Alek
Nice to met you Alek,
What city is the land in? Is it in the strictly commercial, mixed or residential aria?
The beauty of the fine developing troubles states that different cities in the same county have different zoning restrains and local building codes so if re-zoning is an defined option, it will not increase the value of the land because everyone can do it.
What you got to work on is the land price thou since 700k cost can certainly kill any future opportunity in a smaller town or a small suburb city.
If you have the property IPN or APN number you can PM me and I'll give you my opinion on what can be built.
[ Edited by omega1 on Date 01/13/2004 ]
Alek,
A couple of thoughts.
First, to know exactly what the Residential/Office Area zoning district allows in the town, you need to check the current zoning ordinance and then I suggest speaking with the Zoning Officer if you have any questions about it. "Office" zoning may not permit commercial or retail, but the town's zoning ordinance will give you the definitive answer on that.
Second, the highest value for the property is going to depend on the uses that are currently permitted, or in the case of rezoning to "Residential/Office Area" zoning, uses that are probable.
Third, if the builder who has bought all the surrounding land is going to build houses, there may be pressure on the municipal fathers to keep your proposed site residential. I suggest you try to find out "quietly" what the builder intends to do with his land.
Finally, you might also want to check the zoning history of your proposed property to see if it has been grandfathered for anything, and also look into the possibility of converting the existing house to condos.
This is what the description says for Residential/Office Area
Intended for lands with the Urban Area where higher density development is to be encouraged, including lands at gateways to the community and adjacent to major open space, commercial nodes and major institutional uses. The permitted uses will be primarily attached multiple residential, but may also include office and accessory local commercial uses which are located in the residential or office buildings, particularly adjacent to gateways and major institutional uses.
Any comments?
first get some difinitive answers what, exactly, is your zoning. that is, what is the FAR, parking requirments, hight limits etc. If you build a strip mall, dont forget in most communities restaurants and movie theaters have very high parking requirments than, say, office buildings. Then too, you may be in some areas that require some facade design standards or it meets with a design review board (or the equililent). If it requires rezoning then your General Plan must be consistant and if not THAT requires an amendment, and frankly you gotta have a very good reason to make those change. Using the arugment of financial rewards wont cut it. In orther words, if you set a precedent with the zone change it probably wont happen.
The RA with limited business use. Was first designed as a lead into a commercial or mixed use development. Planners finaly figured out about five years ago that real Urban Development meant an area that had activity day and night. They started looking at older cities in the orient or in europe and finaly noticed that the test was to keep something going all the time. A building that just did not go vacant at night.
So this was the start. But of course other things are needed.
Example: North Hollywood. They change zoning to R with Artists in Residence. Meaning they want artists to live there and little shops and coffee places, restaurants, art galleries etc. Of course they forgot the vital ingredient. Cheap housing for Artists. Like cheap lofts for living and working. Soo the area is a bit stagnent. Big Metro station, the start of things. But Snyder the developer who is coming in does not supply cheap lofts for artists. Ergo, the plan fails and there must be corrections and changes.
The test of a great city is to be able to walk thru it at night or day and the buildings are occupied by people. Sleeping, Eating, Family Life. If you need something to eat, theres a restaurant or a food stand somewhere in the block.
In China, walk City of Canton at night. You feel the eyes of the elderly woman, all sitting at windows above shop level in the apartments, they watch the street, why? It is interesting and guess what it has a secondary effect. Reduction in crime. My god you could not shop lift or pickpocket or assault in Canton, the battery of aged observing eyes see it all.
My wife and I got in an argument on the street, you know the usual trivial thing. I wanted to rent bicycles and she wanted to keep walking so we got into it. After about five minutes, an old lady one story up starts shouting at us. The gist as I translate. "Hay White Hairy Monkey, stop your shouting you make the gods curse you and their curses keep me awake. Besides why such a pretty woman with you? Why you no shut up. But if you really want bicycles go down street one block and there on corner nice man fix you up."
I am transfixed, now this is real city living. Everybody watching the street. I enjoyed the bicycle ride. But more, I really enjoyed the lesson in advanced city planning.
You know something, lots of cities are prime for it. We need a catalyst. I wonder where are the persons who could fullfill that function? John da Locke, give us an answer.
Sigh, Lucius
you forgot in LA there are other things such as "adaptive reuse" which is now city wide. And the new RAS zone which allows higher density and mixed commercial use. Also there is also the 35% density bonus to dedicate your units to low income. One of the problems with live/work artists-in-residence is developers are abusing this idea. They have to show floor plans that 2/3 or the areas will be work space. And on a regular basis there is a constant flow of people applying for vairnaces to try and legalized their bootleg units that some slimy real estate person sold as being legit.
i forgot to mention a lot of the catalyzt to good city planning or strong coucilmen who dont give in to lobbyests and who allow real planning to take place. A gf fellow planner worked her tail off to created a transit -oriented district in blighted areas of tons that alow a lot less parking requirments etc. she even pushed something called "pocket parks" which is essenctially, tiny parcels of land made into mini parks. as in most big cities, parks are plentiful in higher income areas and very sparces in lower income. Also in certain rich hoods there is so much bickering with the nieghbors. The nimby issues are beyond pale. eg. Why can he build his home here?" (vacant private property ) "I get a good view of the ocean and I expect to keep it that way."
reklats
I see you live in Monrovia? Chicken, come on into town.
Your thinking while in the minority is most applicable. The concept of Mini Parks goes all the way back to Roman times, was first done by a bunch of Slummy Gauls, who created a mini park right off the street of some slums that were so bad they were bending on the third story and touching each other in mid street. Structual steel not being available. Its a goody.
My concern. Look along the nickel (5th)
in down town Los Angeles. If the pressure on this line could be reduced and spread. If the thread of unemployed
and drugee population could be dispursed somehow. Maybe a change could be effected. Not sure how. I talked to Mr. Gilmore he converts old buildings into lofts. All he wants to do is more Artists Lofts at $2,500 a month up.
Man I dont know about Monrovia, but most of the artists I know top out about $400 a mo. Except the ones with working mates and they are at $600.
I am always afraid to get involved with government support programs cause they always want to select tenants. They do not seem to be able to recognize a difference between someone who is temporarily broke as to those who have adopted the life style of permament dole, and in some instances this is the third generation now present.
Problems, my only contribution is to spread low cost single family housing. make it available to those who could never qualify. How? By a co-sign on the Trust Deed used to purchase the low cost housing.
My experience throughout time and place is that given a stake in the community (like a house) there is created a need to conform to society and this reflects on all members of the family and within two generations the upward climb to middle class (mercantile) begins.
All I am capable of doing at this instant is to try to get a Building Department approval of a standard plan which I intend to erect on infill lots scattered from one end of Los Angeles County to the other. My goal is a payment not to exceed $375 for 30 years, a downpayment that is no money (granted) and expenses of close et al swallowed by me the friendly builder.
I think it can be done, am certainly going to try. I think the trick is in creating a design of house that is so attractive and so modern and so tecky that everybody rich and poor, bad taste or conservative would like it and aspire to it.
I would appreciate your comments, polite or sarcastic, put up or down. It does not matter, I have time for adjustments and all comments are applicable call me a putz, do gooder, Green Peacenik, whatever but call me.
Er Post me.
Cheers Lucius