Former Tenant Threatens Lawsuit Over Security Deposit
Okay, here it is. She moved in long before I purchased the property. The apartment was a dump when she moved in. The owner was an incompetent a$$. Anyway, when we bought the property, we immediately started making improvements. A few months later she moved out for reasons unrelated to the apartment.
Initially I had no idea how bad the apartment was when she moved in. So I told her she wasn't getting her deposit back. She sent me copies of a journal that she kept from when she lived there. It shed light on just how bad things were. I know she may have made stuff up, but having dealt with the previous owner, I tend to believe the journal.
So I thought things over and decided to refund about 35% of her security deposit. There was no move-in checklist or move-out checklist. But I felt that things like removing grease from the walls of the kitchen, cleaning the oven, sweeping and mopping the kitchen floor, and cleaning the tub were things that she should have done. I've now received a letter from her stating that she will not accept the 35% and that she will "take legal action" if her security deposit is not returned to her. Her total security deposit was $465.
Legalities aside, I'm wondering if I should just refund the whole amount, a larger portion of her security deposit, or tell her to stuff it and handle all further communication through my lawyer? Am I just being petty?
You will not be able to prove the condition when she moved in but the tenant might have records the judge would believe.
You are making a guess as to the move in condition. It could be that she has correctly returned you the place in the same or better condition from when she moved in.
Why argue with her? Pay her the deposit back. Assumed you messed up when you bought the place and get it sorted before the next tenant moves in.
John
[addsig]
Hey,
Don't even think about not giving her money back!!!
The tenant has records and you don't. She will nail you in a court of law. Does your state require triple damages on unlawful retention of deposits???
Talk with your attorney. Depending on the laws of your state, you may be able to squeeze the seller. After all, it is his imcompetent record keeping that is costing you.
If I were in your position, I would go ahead and pay her off. It's not worth the lawyers and court expenses.
However, I would point out that the security deposit is there to cover cleaning of the apartment. I would deduct $25/hr (or whatever the rate is there) spent on cleaning the apartment. She should know that the apartment needed to be cleaned by her before she left. If it took you 8 hrs to clean the place up, I'd refund her $265. I'm sure that if you were to invoice it, itemize the costs, and explain in detail what the expenses are there, she would accept it better additionally it will give you better footing if you decide to let her take you to court. You will want to send a copy of the invoice to her new addres via register mail so you can prove that she got it.
Yeah, I gotta agree with the majority here, pay her the $465.00. Then, make a note. On any other houses you buy with tenants in them, get the deposits the renters put from the current owner when you buy, and stick it in an account somewhere. It's supposed to escrowed just for this purpose.
Do you have a renters agreement with the renter that outlines condition of apartment to be when they leave? If not you might in the future make one up and make sure you outline the way the apartment is to be when they move out i.e. broom cleaned and if not how much the renter can expect to have deducted from deposit if it is not broom cleaned. You may want to contact a lawyer to look over a renter agreement before handing them out. In this case on your closing statement it did say there was a deposit correct? All in all if it was me I would give the depoist back and tighten up the agreement so it didnt happen again.
I totally agree that the cheapest and safest route for you is to pay the woman and simultaneously have her sign a complete release of any and all complaints against you.
If NY is anywhere near as liberal as WA laws, the T is always right, and the LL is always wrong...and you as the LL would get nailed hard taking any other course here.
Not sure if this rings true in other states, but you can't charge a tenant for repairs/cleaning that you do yourself. Only for items that you paid for or for services provided by others. Its kind of like the tax laws that won't allow you to deduct an hourly wage from your rental income. how is it in other states?
in Minnesota, IF you provide the tenant with proper notice of why they will not be receiving their deposit back, and you have any sort of reasonable basis for your decision (and yes receipts would help) you would most likely win.
However if you didn;t carefully follow the law, you automatically lose.
Start by communicating with her is writing and clearly identify what you real expenses are (it's not fair to bill a tenant $50 an hour for washing walls when you can hire it out for $10 just becuase you want to pad your 'bill'). But if you hire a cleaning service, it is reasonable for the tenant to cover that cost.
By moving in, she accepted the condition of the property in "acceptable" condition; if not, why would she 'accept' the apartment.
try to negotiate, use real facts and if all else fails, pay her - none of the attorney's i have ever used cost less that $300 by the time all was said and done.
Initially I had no idea how bad the apartment was when she moved in.
You still have no idea how bad the apartment was when she moved in. You have no basis for a claim on her security deposit.
It is unfair and you will lose in court if you make a claim on her security deposit.
Brenda
Okay, I get the trend and I hear what you're all saying. I'm sure you're all absolutely right. But now comes the part where I have to get past my own ego. Do I just send her the check with no note, or do I write a little something to her? And if you're saying write something, what do I say? The words just don't seem to be coming right now.
Just send her the check. Nothing else needs to be said and you can get on with your other business. Case closed.
something simple and to the point...
"...after reviewing our correspondance and considering all of the factors involved, I have decided to return your security deposit. Please note that by cashing the check, you agree that this matter is resolved and that no further action will be pursued."
Straight forward and businesslike and no harm to your ego. Now you're the nice guy who is reasonable.
Quote:
Legalities aside, I'm wondering if I should just refund the whole amount, a larger portion of her security deposit, or tell her to stuff it and handle all further communication through my lawyer? Am I just being petty?
I presonally represented myself in court for some very complicated case (not real estate related. I have also hired lawyers for many others. For one she have to cough up around 1000-2000 retainer. Or that she may find some legal aid to help. Those are in short supply and my guess if she gets some attorney to do pro bono they are going to pick a bonefide case of someone living in squalor because of a landlord not keeping up the place.
Tenants say that all the time. I have a friend who managages 46 units and when he evicts tenants many swear up and down they will sue. He has yet to see this come to pass.
So what if she says she gonna sue? even if she did she has no case. You'er being fair and the attorney will see that and you can ask for attorney fees back. All of this is in small claims anyway.