Rehab Software Comparison
I have looked at two software sites for rehab. the IRES site that is listed here and REDD-D site. BOth seem to have a good product that allows you to make a basic estimate of repair costs etc.
Is there anything else out there? which one of these has anyone used and what was their experience with it? Help 
I have thoroughly reviewed IRES and it seems so complete that I am very impressed. I have several questions about the databases used to provide quantities and cost of materials and labor as well as questions about importing comps and exporting data to other software. I just sent off my questions late last night and am awaiting a response. In the meantime, I will check out REDD-D that you referenced.
Thanks,
Mark
I just reviewed the RED-D software site. It seems to be a very complete system. It is however, like IRES, totally dependent on the manual input/modofication of data to get correct extrapolations. Since it is based on Atlanta numbers, I in Florida would have to research all caosts of material, labor, supplies etc and modify those numbers in RED-D or IRES if there isn't a way toget them automatically, (ie via download.) I believe that we are probably many years from having that kind of data flow/exchange and will for RED-D, at least, have to research those costs and load them ourselves. I would assume, pending their reply to my note, the same is true for IRES. Once that basic information is researched and entered, I would think that both are very useful and thus valuable.
Since it seems to me that Shark Bait is capable of importing comps, foreclosure and tax data, my inclination is to use that to determine FMV of the property assuming the condition of all comps is similar. That would be a value judgement I will have to make. Then, I would use IRES to estimate rehab costs to get a fairly accurate idea of what I'll have to put into the prop to bring it up to market value as determined from the comps (unless they were all distressed at the time the data was developed.)
Once I have an idea of what my reasonable offer should be to option/buy/hold the prop, I will need to evaluate for worthiness as an investment. My gut right know leads me to Prop Vest, which I have not thoroughly reviewed, simply because it appears to be a complete package gor $$ analysis and it is produced by the Shark Bait people. (I assumed that Propvest can draw its data from Shark Bait, but I just went through the review again and it seems that almost all data is entered manually.)
For now, my feeling is that I could effectively use 3 specialty programs; one for determing FMV based on comps (Shark Bait), one for fairly accurately determining fix-up costs (IRES), and one for determining projected or proforma (not performa as is stated on the Prop Vest site) profitability for rentals. (I reviewed IRES only with an eye to rehab costs and not to its rental feasability projection. If it seems to do that well, PropVest may be an unnecessary redundancy, especially since PropVest doesn't determine rehab costs, it merely accepts input of total rehab cost projections developed outside the program.)
I look forward to educated feedback.
Mark
I use sharkbait, and it has a rehab costs estimator in it. It works pretty good, but I do 3 things to tweak it.
#1 Material Surveys
I go to Home Depot, Lowes, and Contractors Warehouse and average on the high side the cost or materials and replacement units. I print out SB's list and literally bring a pen and walk around once a month or so. I do this because there's a home improvement warehouse in EVERY neighborhood, so shipping/hauling materials sometimes saves cash over going to far awar contractor specialty shops. And when you DO get things on the cheap, then GREAT, you come in UNDER COST!
#2 I add in 10-15% on my repair costs once added up. I use a general category to add $100, $500, $1000, $2500, and $5000.
#3 I setup deals with installers. I get to know that a roof on my average rehab is $5000. A bath can be up to $3000, a kitchen $3000-4500. I setup general costs and then I look at the deal again. I ask myself, "If this beast needs a kitchen, 2 baths, and a roof, is it still worth it?" I do the same with my Rule of 10. Can the property still make me money if I need to put $10K into it? $20K? If the answer is YES, I don't even need to peek into a window.
Sharkbait is a great program IF you "marry it". Meaning get to know it intimately, use it daily, clean it regularly (purge your DB), and you'll love it.
If you buy it, ($500+) and let it sit, you'll curse the day you bought it. It's not for the weak of computer aptitude.
Here in So Cal I download from CRR, manipulate the DB in Excel (including my own tweak for beds/baths that their patch doesn't fix), run their Excel Macro, and then import into SB. PLUS I need comps from my title co, MLS, or DataQuick (More $) to make it work. It'll work without comps if you have good knowledge of the market (you may be a realtor).
I love it, but being a Chief Info Officer for a C21 in So Cal, even I had a learning curve on it to really get it to hum.
You may email me for recommendations. Ken at***Must have at least 5 friends to unlock***
Hey,
I have never used any of the these softwares packages, so I can't really comment on their specific abilities.
But in general, why would you spend $500+ on a piece of software to work up repair estimates?? Open up Excel and plug some numbers in to it.
Based on the other responses, you would have to plug all the numbers in to the other software for your region anyway.
So it doesn't save you any time on start up (because you have to enter all the data), it has a steep learning curve and it is expensive.
To be totally honest, I just use a sq footage estimate for bathrooms and a flat fee for kitchens and I am within the 5% to 10% error range.
I am a General Contractor and use different bidding software everyday. If you don't have the expertise you are just guessing. I like the rehab software because it walks me through the house and I don't have to mess withline item entries on excell or other spread sheets. Right now my time is valuable and I want to make the most $$ I can with it. The statndard contractor software isn't as quick or user friendly as sharkbait or IRES appears to be.
WHen I go into a remodel whether it is 5k or 150k I know exactly what my cost basis is goig to be and I don't have to guess. THis allows you to get into houses often ahead of the competition because they are guessing and trying to add "contingencies" in a tough market this can make a difference.
This is why I posted this topic in the first place as the IRES seemed to take a lot of the time out of the estimating process as you walk through a house, check each room out and place a note on what needed to be done.
I am sure you could do this with Excell and set up your own template I just thought this was a little neater and at $50 a month or $500 for the program it is a small cost if your doing the volume to justify it.
I was commenting on a specific peice of FORECLOSURE TRACKING software that also has a rehab estimator built in, althought that's not the primary funtion of the package. The $500 is for the foreclosure tracking software, the rehab package, mapping of properties, loan info, reports, etc are all just nice add ons. I was trying to give these guys some insight on the package I use, since one of them was planning on buying 3 of them.
I track over 175 properties every day, and when they push a week or a month I can flag them with pop-ups. I get to bid on a lot of properties that way, because other people can't track so many properties once they go on a hold or BK status. It's a mass numbers thing. When you're trying to hook 10 good properties a day out of 175 or more in several different counties, you need a tool that can weed through it all FAST, and includes other programs all in one place. If you're only going for one property a day or week, sure, save some money and crank out a worksheet yourself. But in the bigger game speed makes all the difference.
Just a clarification, and I hope the other guys found my info helpful regarding just 1 of the many programs available. It's not for everyone. I just wanted to give them an insight as to what the package included so they didn't waste money on 3 separate programs. Once tweaked, it hums like a finely tuned machine, but you do have to tune it. Cheers. -MakoShark
Hey Stockpro99 and MakoInvestments,
This is excellent! This board should be all about people showing different ways to do things and different ideas. And it is rare that Newbies get a chance to see two sides of something.
So first I want to say I am not trying to get in a war with anyone; I am just presenting a different view. Also, I am not trying to say that the selections you made are wrong.
Specifically, as anyone can view these postings, it is important for individuals who are looking for information, to be able to see alternatives.
Also, I will be up front and say I don't really use Excel; I use Access, but I think more people are comfortable with Excel.
The simple truth of the matter is Newbies (and I define that as anyone who has done less than 10 deals) have more time than they know what to do with and not a lot of money. That is what makes them Newbies.
Their goal is to turn the time into money, NOT to turn money in to time.
So if they spend $5 or $5000, and what they get is an extra 10 minutes or 100 minutes a day, that is a waste of money.
On the other hand, if they take an hour or ten hours and turn it to a savings of $500, they are on the right track.
Excel is an incredibly powerful piece of software. And perhaps I was not cliear in what I meant about plugging numbers in to it. But you can easily have it automatically "walk you through the house". Put a bunch of dropdown boxes with the different rooms. If you really want to get fancy, then put the size of the rooms (width x length). Then a few more drop down boxes for standard repairs (paint, carpet, lights, etc) and BINGO you are now being pretty specific.
Also, you can change your spreadsheet to your hearts content; you can not do that with a software package.
In all fairness the needs of a GC and the needs of a rehabber are different. The GC must be much more accurate. If you quote the job to a client at $5000 and you are off by $1000, you don't make any money, right?
But that is NOT the same for a rehabber. I can be off by 50% and still make a very, very, very comfortable profit. So I use my "quick and dirty" estimate that a new kitchen costs $5000 and, oh damn, it costs $7500, I make $22.5k instead of $25k. If you can't absorb that kind of difference, the deal is too thin.
Also, no matter how good you are, there are ALWAYS unknowns that bite you in the butt. That's just life.
But what about volume? Well I guess 175 houses a month is a lot (depending on what you are doing with them), but I currently maintain a mailing list of over 10,000. That includes all contacts (RE Agents, Wholesalers, Bird Dogs, etc.) and all prospects (primarily by city). I can send out mailings at the touch of a button and track them. If you want a simple way to do that in Excel, put in the addresses (a column each for name, address, city, etc.) then add columns to the right for dates mailed, notes, etc. Again pretty fast and free stuff. When you get a hit (someone contacts you), you can put more details in.
Bottom line is there are lots of ways to skin a cat and "thinking outside the box" means more than just creative finance, it means every aspect of your business.
I hope this helps!
Thanks Bruce for sharing some of the uses of excell. I really am not all that familiar with it and it appears that I should be. I have used Open office as a spreadsheet in the past.
You are right about the differece between a GC and Rehabber. I guess I live in both worlds.
I am looking to move this year but here the margins are very tight and $2500 would be something I would rather not lose. If I take an extra hour with the software and save $2500 I am well paid.
As I always have 20k-50k in rehab projects in any given month time is hard to come by.
I guess I am lazy and trying to use a program where someone else has done the work already
I have learned from the responses to this question and will hopefully put it all to good use. I hadn't thought of excell as a contact manager I had ACT 4 for that but I see where you could really do some creative things given the time and set up your own program to do exactly what you want. I think that sounds like a great idea.
Hopefully when I have the time I will be ale to get one tuned to my personal preferences.
The goal is to think, not think alike.
I love CRE because it does teach you to think outside the box.
[addsig]
Hi u guys,
Everyone has made really good points, and we've managed to keep it civil as well! Good for us. This is why we're here, so others can look at this and find what works for them. I am more cautionary about recommending SB than I am giving it a testimonial. It's not easy.
I agree that spending a little to offset the time it takes to make your own programs (even though I still customized) is worth it for me, maybe not for everyone.
Just to clarify, I track 175+ properties a DAY, not a month, and I'm talking trustee's sales (NTS's from several counties) not the pre-forclosures that I merge into mailouts. At 30 days that's over 5000 properties a month that I keep track of, so a do-all system seems to work for me. Throw in the NOD mailers and stuff we send runners to door knock and yeah, I'm pushin the 10K+ mark myself when it comes to "contacts".
Use whatever works for you. Read and learn from our recommendations. Re-read some of my posts and people will realize I'm not championing my software, it was tough to get it all dialed in.
Guys, I'm glad that unlike some other topics, this one has been able to really really inform people about what's out there, in pretty good detail, without it becoming a "my way is better" match. I think someone who is considering setting up software, or programs, or spreadsheets could drop right into this forum and already be ahead of the next guy when it comes to deciding the best system for themselves.
Once again, cheers for all the good ideas, there's some newbies out there who are MUCH more educated by reading these 8-9 posts, and they will definitely save money by chosing the right combination of time and money invested to suit themselves. We had it the hard way, buy and try, or spend time cranking the numbers.
I'd "challenge" or really more just "suggest" that anyone who has developed a kick-butt spreadsheet or access DB or home-grown "system" that works well to offer it up to the community as a download or to send it to their private eMail address via attachment. That could do a lot of good to people starting out.
If I could share my program and get a few guys to chip in a few bucks each to defer my costs I'd certainly do it, but those code guys locked me into a single machine install, and I have yet to figure out a "work around".
(Although I have found a back door into CRR... Ooops, did I say that out loud?)
Good on us guys, great topic, and good sharing of info for others to read. Cheers. -MakoShark
I enjoyed the cross talk and I certainly learned a thing or 2. Thank you for sharing and please keep those cards and letters coming.
I just finished a review of "Shark Bait" I think it is a real great program! with a Home Depot Pro disk and craftsman estimating software for under $20 I think you would have a singing system for <$550.
For somone as anal as I am I think this is a great product! One day I may have to create my own specific one but until then this will do...
If u go this route and need any help getting it going or plain english explanations, just drop me a line. -MakoShark
Thanks will do, I expect it will be a couple of months before I get it up and running as I am closing out a house in Oregon and moving to Salt Lake (unless it gets cold and the south looks better
.
Appreciate your help! What version do you have? 4.0 or 5.0? and is there a difference? Also what do you know about upgrades?
Randall
Sorry about the delay, but my mentor and I BOUGHT A PROPERTY TODAY at the T/S, it's in the San Berdoo mountains, we're celebrating.
I have 5.0, tweaked it a bit. Upgrades seem easy but not free. Their tech support isn't "great" but more like "adequate". Just EM me at Ken at KenFleming dotcom when you need help, but BEFORE you buy the prog, check with your area (Salt Lake?) and make sure someone sells NOD/NTS info out there, then contact the software co and make sure they have a downloand patch for it, if needed.
LA is one of the best areas for data, and I still have to tweak it. -MakoShark