Finally Got A House ....but
Whoo Hoo we finally got a house in a decent neighborhood via a HUD foreclosure. We were so excited that we ran over to the property yesterday just to begin making our plans. The neighbor came out and told us that the previous occupant had committed suicide in the house 3 years ago. THere is no evidence of this anywhere in the house and I could not find out via the internet. My questions are "how can I find out if this is true and does it matter? Do I have to tell this to potential renters. Will I get renters?
Unless it is haunted I would say you have no need to disclose but the neighbors probably will.
If you can't find anything to substantiate it then I would mark it down as hearsay.
K,
Sometimes properties get "stigmatized" because of events like this, but that normally doesn't hurt a property all that much.
Check the library for newspapers from that time and see how large/important the event was.
Chances are, most of the community (aside from the neighbors) don't even remember it.
Also, it's not something that you have to disclose about hte property...and if you do, expect people not to rent.
Sam
Don't you just hate it when some neighbor rains on your parade??. Here you were all excited about your property, and they have to go spoil the moment. What can they possibly gain by telling you about this violent death??
I don't have any experience with this subject. I'm sure that every house of say 40+ years old has had some deaths in them. Most by natural causes, some by tragic means. The bottom line is dead is dead. You don't need to tell your prospective tenants unless it's requred by law. Rest assured that you neighbors will do that for you.
k564088,
Glad to meet you.
I was thinking with all the murder and suicide posts lately and will they sell or rent, maybe it is time for a new forum. here on TCI or at least a poll.
Murder, Suicide he or she wrote forum.
Tough one to answer will it cause a problem for some most likely, will it stop the right person from renting I doubt it.
I say it will rent out, just put what happended out of your thoughts when showing the house, don't let it consume you to where the renters can see it in your eyes.
John $Cash$ Locke
So is their any laws that state that someone must divulge this info when selling or renting. I'd be interested in how different states deal with this. To me unless you were a family member or lived in the house at the time of the incident, I don't see how anyone could expect you to have to say anything at all about it. And if so wouldn't it also fall back on whoever sold it to you. Considering the neighbor was so eager to share the news with you, I bet the previous owner knew about it as well.
dajackhammer,
The previous owner was HUD. I doubt they knew anything other than they acquired the property when the borrower defaulted on their loan.
The defaulting borrower is probably the previous occupant who committed suicide, and is not around disclose anything.
Because I am a real estate professional ... we are trained to say ... seek advise of a real estate attorney.
All the above posters agreed that with the gracious help of your new neighbor will definitely inform any of your future new tenants.
If for some reason you rent to a tenant that wants to find fault in not paying you rent ... I see this would be an easy out to tell a Judge as their excuse not to pay you rent because you did not disclose. Then there goes the rental income, mortgage, legal costs, and you may lose your investment property.
Sorry for your first experience to be a real headache and education also on the legal aspects of real estate.
I would do some checking with an attorney. Maybe it might be best to just fix it up and re-sell it and start fresh on another property.
All I can see is this property is going to "haunt" you in more ways than the death.
Another thought is as you were first checking to see if in deed the past owner did commit suicide in the house or maybe the helpful neighbor is just a weird jokester. Have a title company check records of the past owners name or you may even have it on some documents you received. Check with county recorder on death certificates to confirm the actual death of the past owner. Even a title company can check County Recorder ... usually $10-$15 fee. This would answer that question.
Then proceed on what you should do with true and correct information. If for some reason the neighbor is not correct ... that is another problem to stop them from scaring your future tenants.
[ Edited by cheryllopez on Date 01/26/2004 ]
There are unpleasant problems that come up every now and then with properties. Death is only one of them. I live on a Civil War Battlefield and I have often wondered if anyone got killed in my backyard. A death did occur in my house during the thirties and the funeral was held in our dining room. The older a house becomes, the more interesting stories like that get.
I would deal with the "death" issue the same way we deal with break-ins. I think you should be honest with all tenants. Tell them up front that the unit was broken into but go into long explanations on the measures you have taken to correct the problem. This has worked very well for us. Tenants appreciate our honesty.
If a death had occured in the house, you need to offer an incentive to make up for it. Throw in a washer and dryer if you have to. Explain the death was tragic and it was a shame the person made the decision to take his own life. I know of an apartment house here in Nashville where a little old lady jumped out of a window on Halloween a few years ago. The apartments still rent for a hefty price.
Yes, the noisy neighbor can be a problem. Head him off at the pass. Don't give him the chance to ruin your property. Perhaps he is trying to scare you and your future tenants off because he doesn't want to live next to a rental. People usually have a reason for the things they do. Being wise to him maybe half the battle. Be kind to him, but concentrate on your tenants.
Hope this helps and good luck. Enjoy your new property.
Cordially,
Alice
DaveT, www.touche.LOL I will admit sometines between reading a post and actually replying my mind will wander not out of insicerity but out of getting older. Now, what was I replying to????
There have been a few posts on death, murder, suicide on properties ... with the new property owner being told and informed AFTER the purchase.
I have replied to about 3 based on my real estate professional experience in California. Every state may be different. Some poster's responsive have been their moral or personal feelings on how or not they would response if that property was their's.
However, caution ... the LAW is first and upmost. Probably what I see is the overall comment here is back to the old days of real estate when my parents bought and sold real estate in the 60's, 70's, and 80's ... buyer beware.
When I started my real estate career in California in the 1990's .. the seller's, and agent's (both seller & buyer) requirement of "Transfer Disclosure Statment" TDS-14 became LAW and required for every sale and purchase (with some exceptions repos, estates etc.).
So ... with an estate (means death of the property owner) with repos (could even mean death).
Best is then buyers should do a little checking or at least ask the question "Did anyone die in the house or on the property?" If yes ... ask more questions and get answers and follow-up.
Because you are buying the property with all it's history (good and bad) that you will have to live with along as you own it. AND deal with it when you sell it because hopefully you will be living then.
If you purchase a property and it was not properly disclosed by LAW of any deaths, murders, suicides ... then you may have recourse against seller, agent, real estate company.
A heads up to buyers, sellers, agents.
[ Edited by cheryllopez on Date 01/27/2004 ]
Disclosure laws vary from state to state, and you should seek legal
advice prior to selling or buying a property.
-- States requiring sellers to disclose physical conditions such as
roof damage, structural defects or other problems: Alaska, California,
Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky,
Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Mississippi, Nebraska, New Hampshire, Ohio,
Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas,
Virginia, Washington, Wisconsin.
-- States exempting brokers from disclosing property stigmas such as
crimes, suicides or HIV status of a previous occupant: California,
Colorado, Connecticut, Washington, D. C., Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois,
Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Maryland, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New
Hampshire, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode
Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Wisconsin,
Wyoming, Virginia.
hope this helps....
Are HUD properties included in local disclosure laws?
One principle about real estate that never changes for us is that you try to buy wholesale and sell retail. That worked for my Dad 40 years ago, and it's still working for me. We're always looking for properties that are flawed and have "a little something wrong with them."
We have gotten our very best deals that way. If you are willing to take a problem and solve it you can make money.
We don't think the death in the house is that big of a deal. Your goal is to get that first tenant who will be loyal to you the landlord. Then when it is time for that tenant to move, get his testimony for the next tenant. I don't think you can stress good tenant testimonies enough.
Cordially,
Alice
ask a feng shui consultant to diagnose the problem and suggest remedies!!!
Quote:Are HUD properties included in local disclosure laws?I don't believe state law is binding on the federal government. In any case, you can only disclose what you know. I seriously doubt that HUD knows the history of any of its foreclosure properties, or the reason for any loan borrower's default.
Check witha RE Attorney on state and local disclosure laws as applicable to renters.Be upfront and tell prospective renters that you heard a previous occupant commited suicide in the house.You may want to have the renter sign a disclosure statement,that they have knowledge that this happened.
Ask you neighbor if he would like to stay with you overnight to help you check if the previous owner is walking the friendly ghost walk. [You know how the people are, ask them for a help or $50 bucks and you can't find them anymore.] Hopefully, that would be enough.
You can also tell your neighbor that you specialize in this type of properties and friendly resident ghosts and would like to know if he would like to sell his house because based on your books and records in 1963 a murder happened in his house on the first floor....
I am sure he'll start minding his own biz the next time someone comes around ... you know the nightly walks, floor squeaking, Etc.
Why would someone have to sign the disclosure or landlord disclose anything like this? People die in their houses day in and day out... Involving lawyers in this meter in my opinion simply doesn't make any sense.