Eviction In PA. Stinks-Can Anyone Help.
I had a problem tennant I inherrited when I bought this quad. Rent is 550 due on the 15th. March 15th comes around and she tells me that she lost her job yesterday and cannot pay rent right now. Explained that she lost job yesterday, it should have nothing to due with rent due on that day. I gave her 10 days to pay rent and never got a dime --she was too bz to go to sec 8. Never could get them home, sent mail and even cert and it was signed for . Other tennants never saw them. Went legal route and put Notice or writ on door for 10 days and then went to District court. I then had to wait for a hearing date and got it yesterday.BTW I had to pay $97.50 to file the claim to get use of my property back. Yesterday was court and she shows up. claiming she is trying to get another place to live but has been too bz to go to Sec 8 of other local office for financial assist.. She also tells judge that she has no intention of paying me back rent because I should have given her more time to get her life straightened out. She is 40 and lives with her mother and her 2 kids in the appt. Judge said she had 10 days to get out and it not -then I have to pay to have her served again and then she will have 11 more days to get out, other wise the sherriff will have the right to put all her belongings on the curb for the garbage. After I pay him to do it. It Sucks..... Out side the courtroom I offered her her deposit of $775 back if she would be out by the end of this week, SHE said OK, BUT she wanted $1500 CASH!!!!! I told her to get bent and she said she might see me in 21 days as she has no intention of moving and Children's Services told her I cannot put the 2 kids of 3 and 14 on the street. I went back in to speak with the judge and he said the only thing she can do is appeal, and if she gets legal aid involved it will be a long timedrawn out process. Meanwhile she cancels all the untilities except cable and puts them in my name and I was told I have to keep the utilites on for them or I will be looking for propblems from the deadbeat tennants.
Any suggentions????? I tried to do this without an atty,,,,maybe I was wrong, but could he have done anything different??? ANyone???????
I did go into a week ago as there was a thunderstorm and no one was home to shut the windows, ( s/w judge before going into appt and had a police friend as a witness) so I closed the windows looked around and the place is not trashed real bad yet!!
HEPLp!!!!!
Can anyone offer anything here???????PLEASE!!!!!
You should contact an attorney for advice in this case. It costs money, but often it will save money in the long run. If you are a big operation, you may have something to gain by making an example out of her by going though the whole legal process. Other tenants will see that they need to toe the line.
If you are a small operation, you have nothing to gain by making an example out her because you don't have enough other tenants to learn from this lesson. In this case, it may be better to cut a deal. $1500 may seem like a lot, but it is easy to do $1500 dollars damage to a place.
Ok, so assuming that the rent is something close to the SD of $775 I'd pay her as long as she's out soon and the place is clean.
Here's the reason: you are not going to be infront of the judge for at least 2 weeks (10 days in legal speak doesnt ususally include weekends). Then you are going to have a week or two while the sherif tries to find her to re-serve her. Then you've got at least another two weeks for the order. Then you have some delay while the sherrif gets around to coming to put her stuff out plus the expense of the move. So even on the best case you've got almost 8 weeks plus the cost of the eviction. During which time you will not collect rent. So if she's gone tomorrow that puts you 8 weeks closer to having the unit re-rented to someone who is a good tenant.
8 weeks equals two months equals $1500. You can go get an attny if you want but he's not shaving much time off the 8 weeks, if any, and you've got to pay him as well.
Thanks for the replies. I went to see the deadbeat today, but she was not home. I did not decide if I want to pay her the $1500 OUCH!! or not. What would I do??? Have her sign an agreement that she is leaving?-- she wants the money before she moves out......What happens if I pay her and she does not go??? Is a signed ageement by her any good. I was thinking of giving me a torn half of 10 $100 bills and then giving her the other half when she is out....But that seems so childish and stupid. If I pay her the 1500 cash how would I do it and make sure I got my appt back immediately???? I do have to go down tomorrow and cut grass and paint the porch and I will probably see her then..Just need a little help as to how to do this right and not get screwed... Thanks again!!![ Edited by jenkie01 on Date 04/30/2004 ]
Just out of curiousity, where in PA is this property? There are attorneys who will provide free consultations for 20 minutes or so (I am in Chester county). I would suggest taking the lease to see whether there are loopholes in it (whether they be in your favor or the tenants') and ask about her Childrens' Services claim.
She sounds like a repeat offender. Was a background check done on her? Call me paranoid, but this sounds planned.
The free legal advise is something I would definitely pursue.
But paying her the $1500 and getting her out I would also highly consider. However it needs to be on your terms or NO terms. I would only hand her the cash when she hands you the keys and you do a walk through to check for damage. She can sit it out while you go through the eviction or take her money and leave.
I have a friend that starts the eviction process if a tenant is ONE day late paying.
The free legal advise will let you know if she can drag it out past the standard timeframe needed to evict. Keep us posted and Good luck!
You DO NOT want to give her nothing until she is on the street. Find a her another place to live and have her help to move. rent a truck of you must, get some release of liability from her. Sounds like she ain't no virgin in these matters. GOOD LUCK!
SHe said she will not move out untill she has the 1500 cash in her hands ----I have no reason to trust her and she said if she moves out I will not give her the money -the did thought cross my mind-but I am worried if I give her the money and she does not vacate them I am shafted times 2. I know of no nuetral party here.
Bldg is in scranton, no creidit ck-done --she came with the bldg --rent is mo to mo-no lease. Between the lost rent and the untilites and the court feel I will be out about 1700 bucks and it just burns my @ss to pay her another 1500 Cash, besides breaking my budget-my kids usaully like HAM on their ham sandwiches, you know, not just 2 slicess of bread.
Well, it's almost 7 am and I gotta go out and paint and cut grass and collect rent, and I guess I am gonna have to deal with this dirtbag one way or another. Will try to feel her out...
[ Edited by jenkie01 on Date 05/01/2004 ][ Edited by jenkie01 on Date 05/01/2004 ]
Do not give her anything until she has vacated.
I hope you got a good deal on the property. Do you suppose your seller's motivation was influenced by this tenant?
I have no direct experience to help here, but I am under the impression that if the eviction is ordered and the sheriff puts the tenant on the street, Children's Services will take the kids into their custody to prevent them from living on the street.[ Edited by DaveT on Date 05/01/2004 ]
OUCH!!!!!!!!!! No lease? OK - shifting into second here. If it's a month to month agreement there should be SOMETHING in the contract that spells out what happens when a month ends and rent is not paid.
As for my previous suggestion about real estate lawyers I would highly recommend one. Talk a little bit, see who you're comfortable with, then show up with ALL your leases (or whatever) for everyone in the building. Sounds like they should all be re-done, and anyone who doesn't sign is out at the end of the term. Yes, it may cost about $200/hr, but it could benefit you in the long run, and possibly protect you from this happening again.
I notice I'm not the only one here who thinks you are not this woman's first victim...
Went down and collected rent and the problem tennat was not there. No one in the bldg has a contract-- all are mo to mo --and all except her are on some for of Sec 8 and the tennant pay the difference, but they are not dirtbags either--the other 3 are all older 45 to 70 and all are on disability or SSI. Should I have contracts made up for them also...
I bought another duplex that was empty after I got this and it was easy to start a new tennant w/a contract, but the ones that have been there a few years were not too receptive when I brought up the subject.
They are good tennants and pay on time and watch the bldg so I was a little reluctant to force a contract on them but perhaps I should at this point.........????
[ Edited by jenkie01 on Date 05/01/2004 ][ Edited by jenkie01 on Date 05/01/2004 ]
At least with Section 8 you get something if a tenant doesn't pay. If the risk is acceptable to you I wouldn't rock the boat, but that's just me.
Ms. Deadbeat of the year, however, is another story. How about this - since she's never around, leave a note stating you will be there at a specific date and time with $1500 cash to hand her as she's leaving? Sure, she said she won't leave without the money first, but if you're in the hallway with cash in your hand she may grab her stuff and go. But again, I would check that your T's are crossed and I's are dotted legally before doing anything other than following through with the eviction process.
Keep me posted!
I would suggest you pay her nothing. It appears that even attempting to give her anything will backfire and cost you additional dollars and frustration. Do not leave any type of note that will come back to haunt you. Do NOT!!! She has done this before and pretty much know a slick attorney that is waiting for her to bring in another landlord. Review the m-m lease. Look for your outs, consult an attorney who speacializes in real estate (tenant issues). Call the utilities and have them disconnected or removed out of your name (unless the lease requires you to pay). And... just maybe you have to live with this one for 8 weeks. :-(
Be sure you place this information on her credit report. Hopefully the next landlord will run a check and be saved a horrible experience.
Don't get too worked up... throw a party as the sheriff is placing her items on the curve and thank God she is gone!!!'
I wish you PEACE.
Disconnecting the utilities may be a violation of your landlord tenant laws.
If your lease agreement calls for the tenant to pay the utilities, then consider having them changed back to her name.
Consult your attorney before taking any adverse action.
So far she is still in and told me she is not going to move----the 10 day mandate was up saturday and I spoke to her on sunday and she said she is staying. I go back to the courthouse and must pay anther 100 bucks to get the sherrif to serve them again --this time with a 11 day notice and then he takes over the prop and give back to me on day 11. But who moves her stuff and where does it go and who pays for the moving>>>>>Tennant still says after the last service that she cannot find a place and is not leaving......
But she did use me for a reference for another appt complex rum by the city...I decided that the best thing I could do was to not reply to it!!!!!!! But I wanted to...
Well I never saw her that weekend, but did see her the following Monday and she said she has "No intentions of going anywhere and that I should be more patient with her" I had to leave before I said something I should not have or just choked her! The 10 court notice was up sat and I went to the magistrate and ifFoemed them and her that "the time is up" She says she is not moving--Period. I go back to the magistrate and pay another $100 bucks and they tell me the sherrif will again serve them with notice and now they have 11 days to get out or he forcibly removes them on day 11 if it is not a Sat or Sun--it is not, it is a friday.
ALso the magistrate said I must file claim again for the APRIL and MAY rent--another 42.50 and get judgement and proceede from there Right now I want my appt back I will have to wait until
I once heard an attorney say he never evicts for non payment of rent, but rather goes for posession of property.
He said using this approach only takes ten days and leaves no room for judge to allow more time. Maybe you need the property back immediately to do renovation so as not to subject the tennant to unsafe conditions ect. Also there are usually attorneys who specialize in doing evictions in volume for a very reasonable fee perhaps $100
plus filing fees. They have all their ducks in a row and almost 100% success . One landlord told me he removes the front door from the hinges (and the property )when the tennant is not at home and they fail to pay rent. In his case there will be no need to call the sherrif evict as vandals will do the job for nothing !
There are law firms specializing in evictions. Mostly, they offer a flat rate deal and at least, you can be sure they have dealt with thousands evictions in your state. ** The smell blood when you offer them money - bad move. ** Do you have her SSN #? Please report it on www.Landlordfile.com ** Also, report her debt to 3 credit agencies. And get some collection letters sent out. ** I would also sue her in SCC in addition. ** At this time, you really have to go after this hellish person - she needs to be taught a lesson!
Well........I was there yesterday and she would answer her door-...I was there to put in a bathroom sink. not to see her. Now today while I am at the hospital (am a nursing student) 2 tennants and a neighbor call me and tell me she is outside arguing with the sherriff's deputy on the street. I figured I had just better keep my distance until her time is up, lest I have some kind of problem with harrassment. I called the sherriff's dept and left a message for the deputy to call me when he gets in to get the scoop. I called my atty and he said he can do it, but that he would have to go thru the same steps that I am going thru, so it would just cos more money. He told me to continue on my own as long as I can and to call him if I need help or I cannot be in court as he could represent me if I was tied up. I am now counting the days....depending on when she was originally served she could be out either next FRi or the following monday.
By the way, I herard thru the grapevine that she got a bunch of citations on her auto for no current inspection sticker and parking in a no parking zone, and one more for driving on a bald tire. I was surprised she did not get more violations, but the police said that would be enough, somewhwere in the neighborhood of $1000 and if she does not pay the citations she loses her license----Well them's the breaks...... Will continue with this silly saga as it goes along....
BUT I never forget the fact that this scumbag is costing me a bunch of money---more every day,,,[ Edited by jenkie01 on Date 05/15/2004 ]
I hope you didnt give her squat!!!!!!!!!!! I dont care if I am a small operation I go through the legal systems get judgments and dockets and then I garnish. If I only collect on 10% of the bad debt it still is enough to pay for my filing expenses. Ill be darned if I am going to build a portfolio and let people disrespect me without consequences. Once you learn the process it is nothing to train a manager to get rid of these dead beats. Those judgements you collect will gather interest as they gather dust. Ask me I just recieved a $2900 pymt from someone that owed me 8 years ago. I couldnt even find the judgement so I had to go back to the court house to get a copy. One payback is all it takes to get all of your filing fees back! I also report to credit bureas so I dont become second to some stinking car pymt. I put this in my lease that I report to credit agencies! Go get your money its yours!
I am 100% with you on this. The sherfiff called me and said he reinforced the fact that she had to be out this sinday 12:01 am--NO LATER> He tols me then I should go to court again....to get the rest of the back rent and all of his fees and charge for my time........I really wasn't going to do it, but now I think I will. She also told the sherriff that she has no intention of moving and he cannot force her out. From the way he was talking it really p!ssed him off that she had so much gaul to tell him that or was just that stupid. In the meantime I have to go there today and cut grass again and will try and make no contact with her until she is out.
Damn sorry to hear the "fun" that you have been going through. Keep us posted. Yours makes me wonder what do others do to prevent this from happening? Stuff to put in the lease, incentives, things you do prior to renting it out ie...background and credit checks, things you have lined up ie.. a damn good lawyer a friend or two with the local sheriff office or what ever. What do you see that you do differently from when you started. Anything else you would want to add or impart to those that are getting started in renting out apts?
:-(
I am sorry to read about what is happening to you in PA. Your terrible experience has caused me to re-visit my 'setups' there and review/revise my leases or talk to my attorney on what to do as protection from a situation such as this. Please keep us posted on hopefully a positive outcome for you very soon.[ Edited by styler on Date 05/25/2004 ]
Well, actually I am truly happy that someone can benefit from this "experience".
Point 1--She is gone--left Sunday nite just before the midnight deadline. ANd the place is rough, but not TRASHED-Thank GOD for that.
Point 2--I am going to all month to month tennants and they will sign leases or leave-from now on. Even the tennants that came with the building. But I think new tennants will have a 60-90 trial period before the lease takes effect (must talk to a lawyer on this part) to insure that I want them and they want me--it can give me an easy out.
Thank you all for your support and ideas during this reaaly crappy time-I appreciate it----Pat Comes
I was at my attorney's office this a.m. to learn to be a landlord since I've got my first rental ready to advertise in about a week. I remembered this thread and he said basically this type situation can be avoided. (I do realize you inherited this lady/deadbeat) the lease he gave me waives the notice to quit. The day after the rent is due you go to the magistrate and file. you don't have to serve them personally, the property can be posted. you don't sue only for rent but also for possession. you don't use the sheriff, use the constable as they're quicker. that said, if you've got one to play the game, it's still going to be a headache but he said with the proper lease it's pretty easy and most of the magistrates here lean toward the landlord. He also said Philadelphia is it's own little world and the rules there are different.
Thanks for the info. The tennant is gone and I went to the magistrate for the rent due another 52.50 and got the judgement for that also and have to wait 30 day before I can file it. I as of yet have not had a regular lease drawn up but have at least 6 different one on my desk to try and pick the best parts from. You have a god point in your lease about the "quit" but a lot of people in this area go month to month because the type of people you rent to ( 400 to 575 mo) are judgement proof and it make no difference. At this point I kind of agree as even though I have some good tennants they probably only have their furnitue and a car that they owe more than it is worth.