Deleting A Derogatory Item
Hi All,
I have an open collection on my credit report for $75. The charge has been on there for two years and the reason I did not pay was based more on principle rather than an inability to pay. I am in the process of beginning my investing career and would like to get rid of this derog and increase my credit score.
Is it possible that I can make an offer to the collection agency that I will pay the amount if they agree to "Delete" it from my credit report? I want the item deleted not just reported as paid. If I can get them to agree to this, should I insist that I will pay only After they delete the item?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
They're not going to delete before you pay. But if the charge really is disputed, they might agree in writing to delete after you pay.
A paid collection is as bad as an unpaid collection on your credit reports. FICO gives no points for "making things right". You want that sucker gone.
ask them if they delete. Most collections not all, and hear me when I say this not all. If you call them up and ask them if they will do a pay to delete, they say yes fax them over a letter that's called a pay for deletion and once they sign and fax a copy of that back to you then pay them.
if you send a validation letter to the CA, collection agency, and once you receive the little green card back because you want to send the validation letter certified mail, they can't report the account for 30 days, if it's already been reported, send a validation letter to the CA, or the original creditor, and then dispute it with the CRA, credit bureau. This is typically known as the 1-2 punch, sometimes the trade line can get deleted, BUT YOU STILL HAVE TO PAY!!!!!!!! All you are doing is asking them to validate this debt, doing their job basically. I am not telling you to lie by any means. But it " POSSIBLY" can get deleted, possibly.
good luck
MsMcCall,
Nice to meet you. Could you please give me a more detailed version of your proposed solution? I didn't quite follow what you had outlined. You may PM me if you prefer.
I asked the collection company if they would do a pay-delete and they said No, they would only report it as a paid collection. I have heard that a paid collection is just as bad as an unpaid collection on the credit score. Any other ideas on how best to handle this?
It's a small amount ($75) that I have been fighting for three years based on www.principle.Now I am tired and just want a better FICO to help start my investing career.
Thanks in advance.
JS
First of all you need to pay the debt,
Then you need to get a copy of your credit report from all 3 bureaus, Tell them the reason you feel it should be removed,THE PRINCIPLE is not a good reason. The will investigate it and if you made a ggod point they will remove it.
Lori
[addsig]
smithj2,
Be aware of the falls, incorrect, half correct or otherwise faulty information member Lori "tinman1755"has been entering throughout this board. Firs of all, none of credit bureau removes correct data. If you believe that your credit report have an incorrect entry /data, you may dispute it but the way the process work, credit bureaus will contact creditor and expect from them to provide the confirmation one way or the other. In case you are disputing the correct peace of information and the creditor fails to respond in the 30 days period of time, you might get lucky and the derogatory item might be removed.
However, the creditor my re supply the information and the same item might come back. In that case you'll have the solid case for demand for removal because the creditor had a chance and legal time frame and it missed so it all boils down to a double jeopardy. Once removed item cannot be replaced but you'll have to fight them in most cases to permanently realize that gain.
Good luck!
Omega1
You have no idea what you are talking about. If the collection is paid and there was a good reason it was not paid in a timely manner and "the principleof the matter" is not one. The bureau will investigate it and make it's own decision on it . If they feel the consumer was correct they will delete the whole line.
Lori
Smithj you do have a good chance of getting that deleted if that is the only thing wrong. Do not be discouraged.
_________________
real estate investor since 1988. I like to find creative solutions for my real estate headaches before they become problems. Most importantly, MOVEMENT DOES NOT EQUAL PRODUCTIVITY[ Edited by tinman1755 on Date 02/20/2004 ]
Once again I have to agree with Omega!
This is what you do. Contact the collection company and inform them that you never received a bill from the people they are collecting the debt for. Tell them
you will come in and pay it as long as they give you a deletion for your credit.
Ask to speak to the supervisor. With enough persistence they will give in. They are in the business of making money. Do not, I repeat, do not just go down and pay it. Show up in person with the cash and demand a deletion letter.
9 out of 10 times they will give you one if you bug them enough.
If you just pay them off, like Tinman suggested, you are done! Try to negotiate for a deletion letter in exchange for a payment. They will not take it off if this just the only derragatory
item and because you are a great guy, they don't care!
I am speaking from experience, I have
lender that I deal with clean up my clients credit for me and this is how they
operate. Another tactic like Omega suggested is to just send a letter and say it is not yours. 50% of the time they
dont respond and it comes off.
Best Riches,
Jeff Adam
_________________
"The only place success comes before work
is in the dictionary."
[ Edited by JeffreyAdam on Date 02/16/2004 ][ Edited by JeffreyAdam on Date 02/16/2004 ]
Thank you Jeff!
--
Hello Lori,
I do not mean to be rude but you are obviously having a hard time getting the message that what you do on this board is wrong. If it helps you become a more valuable member, I will gladly revisit several important facts about few of your recent misappropriate acts, that you persistently chose to ignore:
1) More then 30 posts of yours got deleted just during the last week
2) www.Foreclosures.com claims not to know you as a customer and
3) On their price list they have no ticketed service for $4,95
Unless everyone is having some secret deal with you, you are not telling the truth!
In continuation, relative to your faulty point regarding deletion of an item on ones credit report, I can only advise you to DO read a small brochure printed by federal government, called Fair Credit Act. Or to the same effect, please read any of the credit bureau's printouts that comes along with the credit score. If you do that, I am pretty confident that you'll learn with no problem that CORECT information appearing on the record are NOT deleted even of you pay them, unless you negotiate the "take off" letter as Jeff had suggested.
If I was you I would be ashamed to talk loud about things I do not understand but you obviously do not care and continue to push full throttle up with your self advertising shame, regardless of the fact that more and more people tends to disagree with you on a daily base. Does that bother you? Obviously not and the question is why? Well lets bring up your words and see if we can find the answer:
"I deal with people who have no money, credit around 500 Middle, and want to own a home in their own name."
The above lines are clear example of one's self advertising and to be frank, no one can learn a bit out of what's in that sentence. If you can't keep on the subject, don't post whatever you think it may bring you business through the back door. Again, advertising is against this board rule and I have to advice (newer) TCI members who has not been here long enough to learn them, that they should report any PM solicitation of service and other inappropriate actions by members that violates them once or repeatedly!
And again, there is another one of the self advertising pearls:
" I don't through the average person away because they are not up to YOUR standards."
??? I couldn't fully decipher what you wanted to say but it appears to me that you think that you could turn TCI into your office? You should know that solicitation is against the board rules and anyone catching you soliciting your services should report you to available moderator. You simply canon come out of the blue and start selling your services on this board, and this is exactly what you are trying to do:
" ...everyone deserves a chance ".
Yes dear Lori, but not the chance to teach members how to cheat, hustle others and solicit business against this site's rule!
Keep it clean! Alex.
Hi Smith,
I'll add my 2 cets to your dilemma. DO NOT pay the collection agency, your debt was not with them, Unless the creditor sold it to them for pennies on the dollar. Write the creditor and demand they provide you a copy of hte original doument of which created the debt. (They probalby do not have it) .I of course do not know wiht whom it is with, but it likely has been purged or put on microfilm, and the original copy destroyed.. If they write back they can not provide such, write them again, telling them if they can not prove the debt, they have to remove it. You might want to include a copy of the fair credit reporting act (and highlight the section). Also send a denial to the credit bureau(s) disputing the bill,. If they can not prove it, they have to removeit. I am doing this for a person now (no-I am not in the business, and will not do it for others) So far I have had over 20 bad marks removed for them, and expect most of the others shall be soon as well. Just remenber a degrotary can remain on the credit report for up to 7 years... from the last activity. If you pay it, the clock starts over for the 7 years from there. If the rest of your credit is good since then, the one is not going to hurt you. Put a 100 (or less) word statement in your credit file, tellong why you have not paid it, or why you disputed it... NOT AS A MATTER OF PRINCIPLE.
GOOD LUCK, HOPE THIS HELPS.
The first thing that you need to do is contact NO ONE other than the Credit Bureau. Dispute the line item. Chances are if the debt is very old it will go away. Do not initiate contact with the creditor or the Collection Agency until the Credit Bureau has responded with the verdict of your requested investigation.
If this doesn't get you anywhere then call the people who reported you. Most agencies will not report unless required by their client. So cutting a deal with the Collection Agency will get you no where unless they are the ones who reported you.
Also, sending a validation letter to the collection will do nothig other than give them a new address to skiptrace on. Unless of course your letter is sent to them with the 30 day validation time period stated in the validation notice on the first letter that they sent you.
Quote:Also, sending a validation letter to the collection will do nothig other than give them a new address to skiptrace on. Unless of course your letter is sent to them with the 30 day validation time period stated in the validation notice on the first letter that they sent you.No, you can validate at any time. The 30 days are a waiting period before a CA can go further at the outset of their involvement. But validation after the 30 days requires them to mark any TL they've put on your CRA reports "in dispute" and halt collection activities until they validate. Obviously, if it's not yours, or otherwise crap and you don't want to have to dust it back off your reports, you'll send your DV letter within the 30 days. But you're not precluded from sending one later and stopping collection cold ... even during a lawsuit (Brennan v. Spears).
You can send the letter but it will likely get you nowhere. Except it will cause the collection activity to start again, if it fact it had ceased. Now they know where to find you and that you have an interest in getting rid of the debt.
I will disagree at this time that a letter outside of the 30 day validation period will cease collection activity. I quickly reviewed my copy of the FDCPA and found nothing to support it.
I am open for correction though.
Now, earlier I thought of posting how I would handle this and decided against it. Now I have decided otherwise.
First study the FDCPA. Also study your state collection laws. Then call, send a letter, something that will get the attention of the collection agency and begin them on there collection activity again. I would then work them over until they commited an infaction of the law. (My experience is that it will happen. I have yet to see a single Collection Agency that didn't at some point). Then you bust them.
The statutory language is not a model of clarity, and it is of course better to address a collection sooner rather than later, but the opportunity to ask the CA to validate does not go bye-bye once the CA has had its first letter out to the debtor for 30 days. Remember, the information required to be provided in order to validate is virtually the same evidence necessary to win a contested case in a court of law ... and in the discovery process prior to trial, the debtor would be entitled to request and receive all that evidence (and any omitted evidence would be excluded from being introduced at trial, and would probably form a fatal gap in the creditor's proof).
The best interpretations are that the 30 day periods mentioned in the FDCPA govern the behavior of CRAs and are not limitations on what consumers can do and when they must do it.
http://creditinfocenter.com/rebuild/debt_validation.shtml
For a couple of threads where this issue is debated, look here:
http://www.creditboards.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=21548&highlight=validat%2A
http://www.creditboards.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=23471&highlight=validat%2A
It is of course the CA's option to refuse to validate after the initial 30 days as a matter of policy, the same way any driver has an option to ignore stop signs, red lights, and speed limit signs. Unless and until someone makes an issue of it.
Hi,
Thanks for all the great advice. There seems to be varying opinions on the 30 day period and what it means for Debt Validation. I called the CA and told them over the phone that I needed validation of the debt. They said they were no longer sending out any letters to me and I had to contact the original creitor.
I have read all the information and have come up with the following game plan.
I disputed the item with the CRA's (Equifax, TU & Experian) and they came back saying that the item was updated. I then sent out a validation letter to the CA yesterday. I will wait 30 days and send out another letter via certified mail. If they refuse to validate the debt, I wil then have grounds to actively get it deleted from my Credit Report (No debt validation). If they do come back and validate it within the 30 days, I guess I will be forced to deal with the CA, pay the fine and then do the dispute again to see if the CA will not report it after it has been paid.
What do you think about this plan? And once again, Thanks for all your advice.
JS.
Tinman incorrect completely on this one, omega, Jeffrey and others correct. Although paying the debt may not improve your score, if it is paid, the LENDER WILL look more favorably upon your application. I am not a great fan of disputing correct information. It's like cheating, and although there are "gray" areas, you should pay tour legal and moral debts. It takes a certain mind set and character to be truly successful, whatever your walk in life. Do yourself a favor and do the right thing. All other things being equal, a single $75.00 paid collection should not hurt you. If you explain to the lender directly about you principle, and if he/she agrees with you, it should make no difference whatsoever. Just don't make that the entire basis for your loan.
Good Luck,
Shawn(OH)
Quote:I am not a great fan of disputing correct information. It's like cheating, and although there are "gray" areas, you should pay your legal and moral debts.If the debt is paid (and even if it isn't--but is out of SOL), there's no potential harm in disputing it, accurate or not.
Nobody "agrees" to allow CRAs to keep derogs on their credit reports for 7 years, and I find no issues with people doing whatever they can to get them off.
A host of laws provide relief to debtors who can't pay (bankruptcy being the most extreme such law). No one need be forever under a yoke ... risk of nonpayment is already factored into interest rates. I see no reason for any person to accept more negative consequences than they absolutely must.
CAs, OCs and CRAs all have their employees check their ethics at the door (if they have any). Why shouldn't you?
[ Edited by flacorps on Date 02/23/2004 ]
Quote:Although paying the debt may not improve your score, if it is paid, the LENDER WILL look more favorably upon your application.
loanwizard is correct, but don't misunderstand him please:
If your credit score meets the underwriting guidelines, the lender may accept paid collections more favorably than unpaid. However, they will not "give your score points". In other words, if you need a 580 midscore, but you've got a 570, the fact that you've paid that collection doesn't make them want to "pretend" your score is 580.
I'm having trouble explaining this, hope it came out right.