Creating An Advanced Housing Property.
This is something I have been considering for the past three months. I need everybody to chime in with ideas, share any similar experiences, yes some of you may shoot it down, tell me I am slightly insane, but stick your two to three cents in I need all the help and information this entire group of devotees can come up with.
As you know out here in California we have a few problems. A totaly incompetent legislature, a mass of the strangest people you have ever met running for Governor and a debt that would frost the gonads of a large bull kangeroo. We have another problem we are loth to discuss and that is a shortage of affordable housing. I would like to begin to correct that last item.
I go down to the harbor area and I see masses of very large steel containers that have been slightly damaged and are now discarded and piled up and I can buy them for about $1,500 apiece. 10Ft high and 40 feet long plus of course some other sizes. All metal some of the end doors busted but who cares. If I took three of them at a time and turned them into termite proof housing sort of a squared out C. One across the end and one down each side. An atrium in the middle portion. Put them on a simple foundation,Take a torch and cut the door and window openings. Bring the plumbing in from a single opening in the bottom Cover the roof with insullation and the inside with insullation at each join an area of aluminum and glass to make a far out modern look. These would be two bedroom and office and two baths 400 by 400 by 400 is 1,200 sq. ft. houses.Simple rectangles tied together with aluminum and glass connections. Pretty pretty pretty. I am trying to buy a junky five acre plot of gentle rolling hillside at the North end of the San Fernando Valley just above Sunland. A place of mixed racial, no money and big money, horsey people and people who just look like them. The houses would be erected in clusters of three houses per cluster and all tied together with a single road. A few trees so that the coyotes have something to lean on and thats it. Car ports for the cars two per unit. Estimate of costs about $12,000 per plus landcost of $5,000 per equals $17,000 per house. I have gone over the figures about 100 times and seems pretty correct. Except I have to be there to point, direct and curse in five languages. Now here comes the first variation. Should I make them capable of energy stand alone by installing Solar Panels from Shell Products, supply a small battery storage for each house and then wire the Solars straight into the grid so we can spin the meters backward as we export electricity during the day. True cost all the BS gone about $7,400 a house. Brings the cost up to $25,000 a house.Finished ready to move in. This is cheap housing but way past any modern structure now available. Maintenance wise almost nothing. All Steel. No Termites. Use appox type paint and the septic tanks have leach lines in four directions.
Ok everybody I propose to either rent or land contract out the houses on 30 year paper 7% interest cause I am a pig. Sale price $52,350 a piece. No downpayment required but you have to qualify as to credit and at least a Tech School education. Families only.
Ok everybody give me some answers, suggestions and you can also shoot it down. First of all the purpose of this is to make some money but actualy what I am after is to see if I can create really no maintenance low cost housing in an area where land is cheap and still close to where the jobs are. Lucius
Interesting...
I like it!
I like the solar idea, too. It is "green", and if you keep them as rentals, it could actually add to you cash flow.
My only worry is what will the zoning, and building code people think. Have you talked to anyone from that office?
Good Luck!
P.S. I would like to see some pictures as you go along, if you care to email. I'm just curious.
good luck very wild idea you have
Sounds GREAT! When you have a cluster built, please share the photos with us.
Eric & Rosa
[addsig]
Great idea! Very creative!
Are you also going to install walls, bathrooms, appliances, carpeting, etc?
Do some landscaping?, this can be done cheap using students from a landscaping school, for them it is to acquire experience and a few dollars, and for you a nice garden for each house.
You would be doing a lot of good things here: clean up all that rusting metal, a sort of recycling, create cheap and solid housing, making a lot of people happy + yourself!
Really a wonderful idea!
Ladybug
Lucius da Vinci.....
I knew you were ahead of your time...
just how many other things did you envision that they said... "he's just a crazy ol' man"!
I like your style !
rand
Yes you hit right to the first hurdle.
On my first visit to Dept of Building and Safety, clutching in my hand the napkin on which was my original drawing and a listing of specs. They were, how should I put it, Rude. Several asked to speak directly to my keeper. I was tempted to change my name to Neutra, or Schndler or Frank Lloyd da Wright. But I kept on talking and talking until finaly in disgust
they gave me a tentative OK if I would bring in engineer'd drawings of the containers. Do a proper subdivision and as to the clustering of houses they agreed that recent studies made by planning could be used as documentation on submission of subdivision. I tried to avoid subdivision and could have gotten away with it by declaring the project as an expirimentation in controled housing for the mentaly and moraly challenged. But that might have caused a future problem farther down the time tract if a future decision was made just to sell the houses one by one.So I agreed. I have included all the costs for this paper foolishness in the costing. I obtained all of the engineering on the containers and have had it examined by a structual engineer who will sign an affirmation of calculations so that part is OK. Now I am deep in the design of the glass and aluminum connection spaces which give these plain little rectangles their modern, airy and "far out" look. The glass being used is interesting. You put a current on it and it becomes opaque and push a button, current goes off and it becomes just glass to see thru. Now that is fun. Perhaps I will have some eyeglasses made of it. you know those occasions when you have to go to a movie of someones else selection. You just throw a switch and see nothing.
I would appreciate some more comments, its all right be rude and mean for that is the crucible that leads to greatness, what idiot said that?. Cheers Lucius
Great Idea,
If I'm not mistaken, these units stack nicely, so it would also be possible to offer a "2 Story Unit" that could provide more bedrooms and / or a
"Lliving Room". I am VERY interested in your concept and would like to be kept informed as to your progress. Also, altgough I'm from northern California (San Francisco bay area) if you need any assistance keep me in mind.
Terrance
Honestly, if you can get this off the ground,I bet they would sell/rent so fast you wouldn't believe it. I still vividly remember a house I once visited where they converted a large, abandoned water reservoir into a house for dirt cheap. have such a shortage of affordable housing in California, and that's why I think they would sell fast. When do you ever see a new 1200sq ft+ house in California for under $100,000!?!?!!? I like the idea of recycled materials. I think you should try to use as much reclaimed material as possible. There is so much out there. I always see piles of broken out concrete everywhere I drive. How about using that for the courtyards? Properly laid, it could be attractive. Could the foundation be prepped in such a way to make it an attractive flooring option... perhaps some
texture or score lines, and then painted? itwould eliminate the need for carpet. Use all area rugs. Run heating coils in the concrete to eliminate the need for heating ducts? I wouldn't get too dismayed at the reaction of the city's building department. I have not found them to be to forward looking. Mostinnovative, creative ideas such as your are usually met with a lot of resistance. The idea sounds utterly fascinating to me. Can I volunteer? One good newspaper article about your project and you would probably have it all sold out before you broke ground.
Cindy C
This is very unique and creative thinking, kudos! I think the challenge will be the planning and building dept's initially but you can ride the "green" theme of it and I think they might get behind it and be proud after the typical inertia period of a new idea where off. I def think the solar panel will only help in getting the idea approved...
Im just going to throw some stuff out, forgive me if its off base:
1. if I read correctly you will need to provide streets which Im assuming will have to be per city standards - and will most likely be running utilities (irrig, fire, domestic water, storm, sewer, gas/electric) mains - is this accounted for in your cost?
2. Is rust a factor at all? (Im guessing no as these containers are typically made to ride the sea..)
I like the idea and am interested in seeing what happens - Im out of orange county and would love to kept in the loop on the progress of this idea and possibly help out if I could.
oh yeah and city bldg/planning depts rude??? surely you jest!
Insulation? It may be an electrical hazard... heh just make sure you have your electrical in good shape or you'd be in your own electrical box. I really like this idea. Unfortunatly I'm clear out in Iowa. That seems like an excellent price no matter what the location. Keep us all updated and don't give up hope. Also I wouldn't set a price too early... you never know of any unexpected costs appearing.
Good luck!
Chase
Thank you all once again, I really appreciate your help please keep it up.
The selected land contacts a street of record which has electric power available. I will not be tying to sewer lines as I wanted to leach out from the septic tanks creating some really great soil, and no sewer fees. The idea of the application of radient heating is a wonderful idea, In winter I really hate getting up putting my feet down on freezing concrete or whatever. If I went radient heating having had to dig out a few from concrete, I would avoid that by going back in time to copper tubing with water in them and heated by the hot water www.system.Installed below the floor line not buried in cement but radiating heat upwards onto the floor. Utilize a storage tank hooked up to a little 30 gal heater. I would go back up on the roof line and install two panels for solar heating.1/4 copper tubing, more then enough. I would install my temp sensors which can be set to a temperture. so you can turn them off in summer. Good idea.
My foundations would be a perimeter pouring about 2,500 psi. I would tie the boxes onto them with heavy metal L plates. So if you decided some time in the future to remove the dwelling you could just unbolt it and then on the foundation erect a new house or whatever. I am a firm believer in flexability, nothing stays the same, todays residence might become tomorrows shop. I have never created a double solar split panel system so I will have to design that a bit. but I think it is a great idea. Direct Sun heating the water thus reducing the need for electricity. The Solar electric Panels of course spinning your meter backwards creating a plus account withDipsy Waspy and Poopy oops sorry Department of Water and Power. now that is fun. The batteries sufficient to see you thru any blackout or major failure of the grid.
Ok Ok you talked me into it. I am taking the first one. One grumpy old 81 year old limper is moving in. I do hope they allow cats.
The road requirements are not like a nice suburban subdivision. The requirement is only a country road to each cluster and the tie to existing electric power is not enough to be more then 200 yds. If necessary I can dig it with a baby www.backhoe.No poles, I hate poles. Utilities underground.
My god this is getting to be fun. More suggestions please you are creating a sparker of a project. that does it, we put up a sign and those of you not on the run can list your names and areas of residency and take a credit for the creation of this the first truly responsive housing solution for the 21st Century.
Buckmeister Fuller move over. Besides every body knows he copied an eskimo igloo. See, I told you Real Estate can be fun.
Cheers Lucius
Sign me up to live next door to one grumpy old 81 year old. I want to buy the second one. I would give up my drywalled stuccoed box to live in some truly creative, cutting edge, recycled answer to California's housing crunch. I bet a lot of vendors would get involved for a nomial (if at all) fee, and supply materials (paint, solar panels, etc.) if the project focused heavily on recycled materials, energy efficiency, and resulted in a lot of press releases and exposure. What company wouldn't want the positive media attention for what looks like a truly innovation solution? I volunteer my time for free. Where can I sign up?
Were you serious about making the requirements for 'families only" and at least a "tech school education"? In this litigous society, I could see it now-
Lawyer: What brings you to my office?
Potential Homeowner: I want to file a discrimination lawsuit.
Lawyer: The subject?
Potential Homeowner: This grumpy 81 year old built a house I want to buy.
Lawyer: What's the problem?
Potential Homeowner: He won't let me.
Lawyer: Why?
Potential Homeowner: I only have a high school education.
Lawyer: So?
Potential Homeowner: The grump said I have to have at least a tech school education.
Lawyer: Ok, lets get going!
Scenario 2, same lawyer, different applicant:
Lawyer: So what the problem?
Potential Homeowner #2: This grumpyold senior citizen won't let me buy this tin can house because my wife and I haven't been able to concieve.
Lawyer: I am afraid I don't understand.
Potential Homeowner: He said he is only letting families apply.
Lawyer: Seriously? I wonder if this guy is any relation to my last client who couldn't buy due to his educational status. We won that case. Let;s start working on yours.
Dear Cindy, you convinced me, I was wrong and you are right. I am a bigot and I hope to reform. Lets modify the requirement. Anybody can rent or buy, yes even sexual offenders, well, some qualification on that. Those that are attracted to Chickens OK, but dead Chickens. No! Geese and Ducks of course do not count. I mean really this is California and we must be tolerant.
Thanks for your support. I'll check the school systems for your child. You will have to qualify him for the Magnet program as the general school system in Unified is a little retarded. Advanced math is any sum over ten and they will not let you take your shoes off to help in calculating the higher numbers. I took my Abacus into a Parent Teacher meeting and the teacher thought it was a
musical instrument. I mean watching an Academic identify an Abacus as a Lyre and trying to play it. Not bad in the lower register it was in the upper Octaves he dun failed. Sorry I degress, I have a 14 year old just entered High School and the Biology Teacher has her sitting next to the cage of a rather large black King Snake and she is getting a little freeky. She gets straight A's on her first report card but a C- in Biology. I have to see the teacher. I think I am going to make the class a present of a Mongoose.
Keep the comments coming I really need help. The comment on stacking for a second level. I am checking cranes to see if it is a problem, Thank you all.
Cheers Lucius
And here are a few more things to think about:
1) Acoustics. Have you considered it? Would the steel outer casing cause sound to reverberate, making it a noisy house?
2) Weatherproofing. I bet those containers are not waterproof, especially since you would be using old dinged up ones.
3) Insulation. Sounds cold in winter, hot in summer. If not weatherproof, could be drafty.
Would spray foam insulation solve any of these problems?
Also, this afternoon I went to lunch with my girlfriend and told her about your idea. She said she saw a book on it.
"Really?" I asked. "When and where?"
She said this past summer she went to visit a friend who lives in a very remote region of Wyoming. Takes one hour on a dirt road to get to his house. No civilization for miles and miles. Nearest store is about 1-1/2 hours away. He has no electricity other than what he can generate via solar, a septic system, well water, no gas or propane. Lives in a house he built himself. No cable TV, no phone, not even cell phone reception. He works as a part time ranger, and can live the rest of the year on the money he makes in the summer. Anyway, when she was there, he showed her a book on alternative housing. One of them was a book on converting shipping containers into houses, just like what you are thinking of exploring. She said the book is in color, and although she did not read it closely, she thinks the project was done overseas, Germany or Sweden perhaps. I aksed her if she could procure the book for me. She is going to write to him. That is the ONLY
way to reach him, other than driving out there. He will only get his mail when he makes his weekly jaunt into town (he does not get mail delivered to his house either) when he needs to go into town for supplies. Perhaps it will contain some interesting slants, and prevent you from reinventing the wheel. He bought the book because he was considering purchasing a container and trying it for himself. If I get the book, I will let you know.
Cindy C.
lufos.....brilliant, brilliant..before i got into REI i used to work over in west africa, all up and down the coast..and they have been living in containers over there for years..they stay near the shipping of course but many easily salvaged containers cant be insured by the underwriters to the client and are simply put to rest on the beach..it may seem a little far thinking but im sure you could contact some of the larger shipping lines about purchasing these containers from ghana, nigeria,cote d ivory, togo, congo and angola to name a few..the one to contact is MAERSK..e-mail me when you get this flying..we have sent things home in containers from all over the world and they were willing to give us the container as well because we did not insure any of our junk..the countries we have been to are now making the shipping lines take there containers off premises because of surplus..they are in excellent condition and they make great store houses or whatever..you can probably pick them up for about $100.00US a piece..also, if you had something exported from africa or thailand or where-ever..put nextt to nothing inside that will give them the oppurtunity to send back to states, as the united states imports much more than you think..hey, import an idea and put in a container..hehehe..i know some contacts, let me know...best of luck..
regards-pat