Bonchick, Ward, Gatten Land Trust?
Hi! Does anyone know of the best source for Land Trust forms, process, etc?
I've considered Bill Bronchick's ($250), Ward Hanigan's ($750), and Bill Gatten's ($530). Does anyone have any experience with any of these? Are they worth it?
I would suppose that one would probably need to have an RE lawyer look over the forms, anyway, before using, right?
Thanks!
allcash
(Moderator(s): Please don't delete this post like you did my last one on this topic. I'm not advertising for any of these folks. I'm just trying to learn from the experience of others. Isn't that what this forum is all about? Thanks!)
Your post may have been deleted for being posted in the wrong forum. You don't really have a legal question...[ Edited by myfrogger on Date 10/18/2003 ]
AllCash4Homes,
You may have answered your own question, you do need the paperwork reviewed by a local attorney, then why not have the local attorney do the Land Trust for you to make it state specific to where you live?
It seems more cost effective to have a local attorney do the Land Trust for you, this way if problems arise you can put it back on your attorney. I don't believe it would be anymore cost wise and probably less money than purchasing generic paperwork and then have to have reviewed anyway.
John $Cash$ Locke
Mr. Locke,
Thank you for the post. Wasn't sure where the proper place to post this request was. Since there were considerable other threads here regarding land trusts, I thought it the most proper place. Is there another forum that would be more appropriate? Any suggestions along that line would be appreciated.
I have been going back and forth over the same considerations that you just made in your post. I am still trying to find a lawyer who is familiar with creative REI concepts, sub2, land trusts, etc. I spoke with one a couple of days ago who says sub2 is illegal (I won't get into that now) and wasn't very familiar with land trusts. I don't want to pay that attorney $300/hour to learn how to do it.
Thus, I've put another post in this forum (is this the correct forum?) asking for referral to a good RE lawyer in my area.
Thanks again for your post, Mr. Locke.
Take care,
allcash
.... also, to follow up, I thought it might be cheaper to come in to a local lawyer with existing trust paperwork for review rather than having them "draft" (actually, probably just copy a boilerplate version) from scratch and charge me more. I think the meat of the matter is I need to find one or more RE lawyers with whom I could review pricing and decide what makes most sense.
Continuing my search... 8-(
Thanks again!
allcash
Anyone else have any recommendations?
Thanks!
allcash
John Locke is some of the best advice you can get ... I would follow his lead....
AllCash4Homes,
A Land Trust is already in your attorneys computer under boiler plate, his legal secretary will just hit the print button, the attorney will wipe his brow, and say well here it is, took some time but I got it.
Hope I am not giving away to many secrets here, attorneys on the board I couldn't resist this one.
John $Cash$ Locke
Thanks, again, John.
I knew that is the case. First (and only so far) lawyer I interviewed was a bit perplexed as to what this thing is and why I wanted to do it. She said she had to do some homework to gather the forms together and figure out how to do it. Quoted something like $3,000 for generating the first time, which I thought pretty steep. Just trying to cut some corners since I've still not made my first deal.
Take care,
allcash
"Land trust" is actually a misnomer, and every lawyer who does wills & has a probate practice, certainly DOES draft & create trusts for clients.
Just shop & tell them you want price for their creating for you, an Inter Vivos (Living) Trust**, so you can use it for your purposes, including acquiring RE & staying in compliance with Garn www.St.Germain Fed law.
In just a few minutes on any search engine, you can find LOTS on G St G law, and its very specific language permitting conveyances by deed that do NOT violate DOL clause in a mortgage or Deed of Trust.
A number of "gurus" including Bill Gatten, Bronchik*, et al, have resources available, at a cost, for trust docs that are in compliance and useful for your RE, subject-to deals.
Also your closest law library has lots of pp. of legal forms on all kinds of subjects, and they're freely available to any reader.
*You'll also learn that these guys have ongoing argument between themselves as to who knows more, who's got best forms, etc. Like oil & water, they really don't mix well.
** Most Living Trusts contain provisions that extend life of the Trust beyond death of primary, original originator & beneficiary, so it actually becomes a more valuable entity at & subsequent to death of original beneficiary.
It avoids necessity for probate of beneficiary's estate or last will, for example, as Trust doesn't die with beneficiary, or death of trustee, but continues life for as long as it's useful to the surviving beneficiaries.
As you'll also learn on this site & others, or by just a few conversations, most Will & Probate lawyers aren't exactly on the cutting edge of legal know-how on how to do creative REI, so you probably won't want to solicit their involvement with that business.
You probably won't even be wanting their advice on same. You wouldn't even be talking the same language and it'd be like your trying to converse with a Martian.
JohnMerchant,
I certainly highly respect your opinions and knowledge, however just a question would the trusts from Bill Bronchick or others be good enough to go on in any state without professional review?
I think even Bill is stating have his paperwork reviewed by a local attorney.
I would certainly not want to take away from any attorney or individual who is in the business of selling creative real estate paperwork, but generic one size fits all legal paperwork has never been one of my favorties.
Opinion sir,
John $Cash$ Locke
John Locke;
I do certainly respect the knowledge of Bronchik and Gatten;
But if I were the one wanting a trust, I'd want it done by a lawyer who does them routinely, daily, for clients and knows and recognizes the nuances and weaknesses of each distinct client's particular situation.
Trust law is pretty much the same throughout the USA, as a trust is just a private contract between the Grantor and Trustee, concerning the rights of the named Beneficiaries...and so far as I'm aware, a Trust is allowed to hold a Deed in every state and is further absolutely recogized and respected by the IRS as a legitimate tax entity.
But each client's situation is very distinct, and I'd venture to say NO two are really identical.
For instance, should Howard Hughes have decided to go with a trust , prior to his incapacity and death, his and his heirs situations would have been much different from the Kennedy's, who have been using trusts for their RE holdings for generations now.
Granted, most of us have nowhere near their wealth, but we each have our own needs and wants that our own lawyers can and will recognize and help us with.
Very important, though, is that the prospective client ask plenty of hard questions, up front, about the fees and costs of getting the trust he wants...and if he doesn't like the answers, move on to somebody else.
By the way, I have lots of respect for your opinions and carefully read your posts for my own edification.
Best wishes
John Merchant
All$4Homes:
To Specifically Answer Your Q.s:
IMHO Bill Gatten's Land Trust formation arm has been (AND IS) well versed to satisfactorily set up and record Land Trusts throughout ALL 50 States.
Furthermore they incorporate specific addendums and structures added to the Trust and call them the "PACTrust(tm) or Equity Holding Trust(tm)
Those items added to the simple Living Trustr are the ones that you should probably confer with your privy counsel(aka local ATTY) regarding legality or appropriateness for your respective State(s).
Finally, It has been both mine and my student's experience by using Bil Gatten's land trust system (with LEGAL CONFIDENCE) enabling us to SAVE Our TIME ---
Spending more of it in front of SELLERS / BUYERS vs. ATTYS.
JMHO
I hope this helps!
Derrick
Hi Allcash.
I think John Locke is wrong, I doubt all attorneys know what a Land Trust is. According to Mark Warda's book on Land Trust states, Texas where I live doesn't have a Land Trust Statute, so whats the chances an average attorney would have this trust ready and understand how to use it. Attorney's in Places that have Land Trust Statutes such Virginia, Nevada, Illinois, might be more familiar with these type of Trust.
Look for the Mark Warda Book. I am sure there are others.
firepro,
Glad to meet you.
If you re-read my post no where did I say all attorneys understand Land Trusts, my sense of humor was maybe to dry on this one for everyone to understand.
What I was implying was that almost all forms are boilerplate albeit a Land Trust or Petition for Divorce or fill in the blanks if you will, however I am sure they are state specific and do require legal expertise from the attorney.
Just pulling a few chains, my line has always been, "I am not fond of attorneys but not crazy enough not to use one."
John $Cash$ Locke
Thanks everyone for great input. I will likely explore further Bill Gatten's land trust offerings. I'm in So. California, his stuff is definitely appropriate here, and offers some additional features that are unique and add value and (at least I've heard) save time. Of course, there is a cost, but isn't there always?
Oh, and I'll probably have pre-paid legal ($49/month) review the forms/contracts/paperwork rather than pay for an expensive attorney at this early point in my REI career.
Take care,
Kevin
This string'sgetting too long, so I'm a-Lockin' er down.
Start a new one with your NEW questions.