Blank Docs Notarized?
Ron Legrand teaches that, often, when getting the deed from a seller, he doesn't have all of the SubTo forms completed when meeting with the seller and having the seller sign.
I did this, and took the seller to the local bank to get the documents that needed a notary, notarized. The bank balked, saying that the documents have to be complete before notarizing. What's your experience with this? If this is standard procedure, how would you get around this other than only taking fully completed docs to the seller for seller's signing?
Martin
I am a notary and yes, it needs to be filled out!
What docs specifically are you talking about? If the warranty deed is signed and notarized, the house is yours as soon as you file the deed. Yes the forms that you have notarized will have to be completed when you have them notarized. The notary is affirming that they witnessed the signatures. That would be kind of difficult if there were none.
When we do a closing all the information is known, so I see no reason why the blanks except for the book and page number on the affidavit.
Everything else is completed for the notary.
John (LV)
Quote:
On 2003-11-27 04:17, martin1g wrote:
Ron Legrand teaches that, often, when getting the deed from a seller, he doesn't have all of the SubTo forms completed when meeting with the seller and having the seller sign.
I did this, and took the seller to the local bank to get the documents that needed a notary, notarized. The bank balked, saying that the documents have to be complete before notarizing. What's your experience with this? If this is standard procedure, how would you get around this other than only taking fully completed docs to the seller for seller's signing?
Martin
I believe the referrence to here is having the seller sign.... then you fill in the blanks... with the missing info you may not of had at that particular time.... but notary must witness signature so I'm not quite sure as to what would be missing... or why you would be incomplete on your contracts at that point...
Martin,
The notarys job is to be sure that the person signing the documents is the person they claim to be. They should do this for you without scrutinizing the actual documents.
Having another investor or a friend become a notary will take care of this problem for you.
[addsig]
The house is yours when the seller signs the deed to you, not when you record it. Z
Zach,
That may be so, unless someone else records a deed before you do. Don't believe for a moment that there never has been an instance where the seller signed a second set of docs when a better deal came along.
Jeff
touché! Z
Way back in 1956, I used to run in a VW Beatle with the passenger seat out and a small desk inserted on which was a portable typewriter, a mass of forms Grant Deeds, Quite Claim Deeds, Power of Atty's Note, Deeds of Trust Etc. and of course my Notary Book and stamp.
I ran on foreclosures. I would pick up the prior day filings of NOD and away I would go.
Pulled up, to house. talked to Lady, check her docs, yes she was owner and in forcl. She signed Grant Deed and I gave her my check for $100 payment in full. I notarized the deed made out to a Company. away I went to Recorders Office and recorded the document one half hour prior to close of wicket. I owned a lovely 3 br 1 ba hse for $9,000 or so. subject to lst td of $8,900 int at 4.5% 30 years. Four pays due on lst TD in foreclosure GI loan.
The next morning I called lender found out how much to bring current and went to bank got the money. Bought the Cashiers Check to cure foreclosure. I then went to Western Savings and Loan to tender payment. I had to wait in line and got talking to the man ahead of me. He is waving a Grant Deed in his hand and shows it to me. Oh My God same little lady. She had taken $500 from him and given him a deed also. But he had not recorded yet.
I stepped out of line and did not tender. Why bother the nice man had done it for me. I at once executed another Grant Deed Selling the house to another Company. I went down and recorded the second deed. Paid the fees etc.
Needless to say when I checked with the prior owner of the property she admitted signing the second Grant Deed and taking the $500.
I took possession of the property about three days latter as the lady went back to her parents home in Denver Colorado.
Yes I did thank that nice man for making the payment bringing the property out of foreclosure. Shortly thereafter I sold the property and I called that nice Foreclosure Runner Person and offered to buy him lunch. He slamned the phone down, called me a dirty name.
He was right, I should not have let him bring the property out of foreclosure. I am a bad person.
Regretfully (not really) Lucius
WilliamGA is right, a notary is just there to act as a hand of the state, and prove that the document was signed by the person who they say they are not the leagals of the doc.
The signature and ID are all that they are to worry with.
Sire
I think the object is not to fill in the grantees name on the deed but have the grantor sign. This way you can sell the deed to the next fellow without your name going on title, not that I have ever done it that way.<cough>....<cough
Thanks to all of you for your very thoughtful remarks.
Follow-up question to those who said the documents have to be filled in before being notarized:
I guess I don't understand why. If the notary ensures that that the signing witness is who they say they are, why is the notary concerned with the contents of the documents?
Martin
it would seem to me that if the notary is verifying the documents, not the signatures and identities, they would be effectively practicing law. since a notary is not always a lawyer, i would think that to be strange. maybe cscarpero could clarify what exactly needs filled out from a notary's standpoint.
I was a notary here in California and it is actually against the law (CA Gov. Code Sec. 8205) for a notary to knowingly notarize incomplete documents. While it is true that there is a strong prohibition with regard notaries giving legal advice (practicing law), one does not need to have any legal training to know a document is blank.
As a notary, I was responsible for ensuring the document appeared to be complete (while making no judgement or comment as to whether it was properly completed), the persons involved were of lawful age, showed proper identification, and was not obviously of diminished capacity (which could open up the possibility for coercion).
I am not sure what the penalty would be for notarizing an obviously incomplete document (it's been awhile), but it would probably result in the loss of notary's commission. In addition, you are open to a lawsuit and I am not sure whether a notary's errors and omissions insurance would cover that (If I remember correctly, it will not).
In any event, I personally do not think it is good practice to have sellers sign blank contracts...but that's a whole other kettle of fish [ Edited by Rogue on Date 12/02/2003 ]