Another Florida Tax Deed Question
I am new at this and researching information like crazy! Is it really true that in Florida, if I were to receive a tax deed at an auction from the Clerk of Circuit Court, the former owner has 4 years after the tax deed being issued to "re-claim" the property? 4 years is a LONG time! Does that mean I can't sell it or do anything with the property except pay the darn taxes until the 4 years are up? Thanks!! Adrienne 
Firebush,
I do not know of any rule of this type. If you do then verify it and report back.
FSA 197.552 provides that no right, interest, restriction, or other covenant shall survive the issuance of a tax deed. The holder of a tax deed holds title in fee simple and all mortgages or other encumbrances, except municipal and county liens are extinguished by the tax deed.
Hope this helps,
Mitchell Goldstein
Hi Mitchell!
Thanks for your quick reply!
Here is where I found this information:
I went to the Charlotte County ( Florida) Property Appraiser website.. Clicked on to Charlotte County Tax Collector..then Tax Information..Then clicked Real Estate Taxes..then in the message body I clicked onto Tax Deed Brochure. There is a Questions and Explanations page and under the Question "What Happens At The Land Sale?" it states " The highest bidder will receive a tax deed from the Clerk of Circuit Court. This is not the same as a Warranty Deed as more steps may be necessary to obtain a clear title. If there is no action commenced by the former owner within 4 years of the tax deed being issued, then the owner will have clear title to the property."
I am new at this and maybe I am missing something in this explanation. Any and all help is appreciated!
Thanks again,
Adrienne
Adrienne --(FL)--------------
I think you should be reading the state statutes on the collection of delinquent property taxes so you don't get confused.
Here in CA, there is a statute of limitations that precludes former owners of properties auctioned off at the tax sale from filing a lawsuit attempting to recover the property. Any such lawsuit, alleging improper conduct of the tax sale, must be started within the one-year period. Title insurance companies will not issue title insurance in CA for at least that 1 year period unless the purchaser has gotten quit claim deeds from all of the former owners or had gone through a quiet title lawsuit.
Perhaps FL has a similar statute of limititations for the former owner to file a lawsuit contesting the sell. Understand that this is NOT the same as a right of redemption. The person(s) has to actually file a lawsuit and then has to prevale in the lawsuit.
My suggestion: read the laws so you know what is going on.
Good Investing**********Ron Starr**************
Hi Ron and Thanks!
I took your advice and am doing Florida Statutes research. In Chapter 197, "Tax Collections, Sales and Liens," it does state:
197.562 Grantee of tax deed entitled to immediate possession.
This does sound much better! As I mentioned, I am new to this, but my interests lie in tax deed sales, foreclosures and /or Bird Dogging. I just purchased an EBook on Florida Tax Liens and Deed Sales and when finished with this I will purchase John Locke's EBook, "Big Bucks Bird-Dogging."
Researching is fun, but of course making money will be a lot more fun!
Thanks again!
Adrienne
p.s. If anyone else has any advice for a Floida newbie I would greatly appreciate it!!
IM IN THE SAME BOAT. I PURCHASED 4 LOTS AT A SALE AND IM TRYING TO FIND OUT HOW TO GET CLEAR TITLE. IM TOLD TO DO A SUIT TO QUIET DEED.ANY HELP WOULD BE GREAT
Hi!
I am looking forward to an expert's answer to your question, but I think it might help if you explained a little bit more about your 4 lots. Did you purchase them at a tax deed sale? Or a foreclosure or maybe a private owner? What kind of deed were you given?
Adrienne
Hello,
I thought it was only 2 two yr redemption period. If you buy a tax certificate at the anuual auctionthis year let's say... You can go back to Charlotte county in 2006 and say I want to put this certificate up for a tax deed sale. Then they owner or you or anyone can bid on the property in an open forum.
Best bet is to call a local title company or r.e. lawyer and ask for thier advice, it's also free. You'll have to get a new policy, maybe $500-700 bucks per parcel.
Hope that helps..
MT
[addsig]
MY LOTS WERE TAX DEED SALES.
no need to scream...
anyhow, i just found out about this stuff today.. looks interesting
You should go back and read the Florida property tax code Section 197.
First, in every tax sale transaction you will generally not have clear title. This means that even if you are given a deed by the county you still will not have clear title. Typically if you wait 2 or more years after the sale you will be more likely to get a title insurance policy issued on the property.
If you are going to rent out the property or owner finance the property you will not need title insurance. You will need to provide good title whenever you do sell it.
When you purchase a tax deed in Florida you are not purchasing a warranty deed. You are purchasing a tax deed or sheriff's deed. This is basically a quit claim deed meaning that the you are only getting what the county or previous owner had. There are no warranties associated with the title.
You should contact an attorney in Florida and determine the cost of a title clearing suit (i.e., the quiet title lawsuit). If you have any more questions send me a message.
[addsig]
Darius
Again - your information is misleading - you can get title insurance from a firm in California (Newport Beach to be exact) that will allow you to sell the property.
Most of our sales we do use a quit claim deed - but that is just because we want to sell it quickly.
I am not sure how that is misleading. For most investors it is hard to find a company who will issue a title policy on tax sale property unless a substantial time period has passed and not attacks on the legitimacy of the lien have occurred.
It is possible to find companies that will issue the policy but the general rule is that most companies will not issue a policy.
I am not being negative on tax sales at all, but I do want people to be aware of the difficulties.
[addsig]
Hi,
I'm also a newbie, just bought a tax deed today in Florida. The quiet claim deed is listed in several of the clerk of court sites as a way to clear the title, but I have a question about the former owner being able to reclaim the title, in order for them to reclaim the title wouldn't they have to pay all fees associated with the taxes? In other words, wouldn't they be required to refund your bid ammount to you before they had clear title to the property? So for example if you bid $5000 for a property would they be required to refund your bid to clear the title?
genabit--(FL)----------------
You are not looking at this correctly.
The former owner(s) give(s) a quit claim deed to you, not a warrantey deed or a grant deed or a bargain and sale deed, or some other deed.
A quit claim deed transfers ANY and ALL interest that the grantor has in a property. That is so even if that person has no interest. So, for a former owner, the quit claim would transfer any right that the former owner has in the property: the right of redemption, the right to file a lawsuit claiming that the sale was improperly conducted, probably any escess proceeds claim, etc.
The title company will then feel that the former owner is not going to be filing a lawsuit claiming that the sale was improperly conducted or any lawsuit against the new title holder. Reason: the old title holder(s) have/has voluntarily transfered the property to the new owner.
You might have to pay some money to the former owner to get a deed. And about one-third, by my estimate, of tax sales properties have dead owners. Dead owners are forbidden by law to sign quit claim deeds. Or something like that.
I am not an attorney, so please consult with an attorney in your state for details as to situation of the former property owner.
Good Investing********Ron Starr*********
I checked and could not find any reference to owner regaining property
According to Florida Statutes
Section 197.542, F.S., states: "Any person, firm, corporation, or county that is the grantee of any tax deed under this law shall be entitled to the immediate possession of the lands described in the deed. If demand for possession is refused, the purchaser may apply to the circuit court for a writ of assistance upon 5 days' notice directed to the person refusing to deliver possession. Upon service of the responsive pleadings, if any, the matter shall proceed as in chancery cases. If the court finds for the applicant, an order shall be issued by the court directing the sheriff to put the grantee in possession of the lands."
Ron,
What happens when the owner/s are deceased? Is that an easier process because there isn't anyone (unless there is an estate-which could be in probate for years). What is your experience with this generally?
Thanks,
~D~
dawizzy--------------------
I don't have an answer for you. Different situations lead to different outcomes.
I was responding to somebody by suggesting that a quit claim deed from the former owner(s) might make it easier and cheaper to get title insurance on the property or for the poster's buyer to get title insurance. If the owner is dead, that is impossible. Dead people are not deed people--they cannot sign a deed.
In tax lien situations, dead owners greatly increase your chance of getting a deed to the property. In tax sale states, the probability of a property on a tax sales list actually going to auction so you can bid upon it is greatly enhanced with dead owner(s). Those dead peoples checks to the tax collectors bounce a lot, I guess.
Good Investing********Ron Starr*********
OK, let's get the facts straight. A quit claim Deed only transfers any interest a claimant *MAY HAVE* in the property. It does not assure you that he had any ownership rights to begin with. IOW, I could give you a *Quit Claim Deed* on the Brooklyn Bridge and it would be legal. I do not need to have any right to the property, to legally give a *Quit Claim Deed.*
When you buy a property via a tax deed in Florida, you still need to quiet the title. That can be done in a few different ways.
1. A *Quit Claim Deed* signed by the previous interested parties will clear the property.
2. You can file an action to *Quiet Title*. That will take about six months and cost you somewhere around $1,000 to $1,500.
3. You can use the title insurance guys in California and it will cost you about the same as a *Quit Title* action. Do the *Quiet Title* instead.
4. You can sit on the property for 4 years before trying to sell. The title will automatically be quieted at that time if the previous owners have not contested the sale.
There are only two defenses that a previous owner can take against the sale. Either they paid the taxes and the property should not have been sold or the clerk made some error in the procedure of the sale. Both are highly unlikely to be the case.
The above assumes there are no outstanding municiple liens against the owner of the property on that or any other property that he may own within the same county.[ Edited by GeneralSnafu on Date 05/11/2004 ]
GeneralSnafu--(FL)--------------
I liked your post. Well organized, clear, lots of information.
Good Investing**********Ron Starr*********
Quote:
On 2004-05-03 21:45, genabit wrote:
Hi,
I'm also a newbie, just bought a tax deed today in Florida. The quiet claim deed is listed in several of the clerk of court sites as a way to clear the title, but I have a question about the former owner being able to reclaim the title, in order for them to reclaim the title wouldn't they have to pay all fees associated with the taxes? In other words, wouldn't they be required to refund your bid ammount to you before they had clear title to the property? So for example if you bid $5000 for a property would they be required to refund your bid to clear the title?
First, you are confusing and an action to "Quiet Title" with a "Quit Claim Deed."
The answer to your question is "No they would not." Just apply a little logic and you will see why. Suppose the local Vultures, knowing you are a newbie, pump the price at the auction, resulting in you buying something that is not worth what you just paid, why would the owner be required to repay you for your lack of knowledge?
The questions that you are asking, are questions that you should have the answers to, before you buy anything on the courthouse steps. I have seen people, and not just newbies, purchase properties and have to walk away from their entire investment because they failed to do their due diligence before the sale.
Based upon your current level of experience, I would suggest that you don't spend more on a property than you can afford to lose until you understand the entire legal process. After that you need to make yourself aware of some of the games the old timers play on the courthouse steps that are designed to cost you money.
Actually there is a firm in California that you can find www.taxtitleservices.com that offers title insurance for tax deeds after they make sure that all the procedure is done correctly in noticing all existing registered owners of interest o the property and you can transfer this title to almost all the largest title companies in the country if and when you wish to sell the property and you then will get clear title to the property even though you are buying only a tax deed. This entire procedure takes only about 45 days and costs much less than a quiet title procedure through local lawyers and is much faster. I use them extensively for my tax deed properties and I find them extremely competent and relatively inexpensive and gives me a peace of mind. Good luck!
RC from NC