A better question would be how many people make a living doing adverse possession on this board.
Or as a matter of fact have waited 20 years in some states to get the deed.
Then you could ask, have been arrested for breaking and entering or fixed a place up and the owner showed up, I could probably think of some more questions, but these should do for now.
I know an old investor who acquired a house this way. The owners died and he somehow found an heir. He was able to do adverse posession and get the deed through color of title. In Tennessee it takes 7 years with color and 20 without. I would look for an heir.
A few posts have come up about similar situations where a home owner dies and does not have a will or relative.
On those posts there was a mix of posters saying it was "adverse possession" and others (like myself) said the county handles it as probate or conservership and will sell at tax or auction.
I do know of a broker in Sacramento, California that had contracts with many Northern California counties to list and sell these properties. That broker has a system down ... cleans up the property, list in MLS, sells the personal property, and if it is best will then auction the property.
I tried to have the county where I live to have the contract with me ... but they were satisfied with that broker.
This might be an idea for someone out there to get this type of business in your state and county. Excellent opportunity is many ways. !!
Just like I have some repo companies call me to list and sell their properties ... it would be excellent to have a county call to list and sell a property that the person had no will or relatives.
NWMS, If you find a distant relative, have them quit claim their interest in the property over to you and then record it. You then move in and pay any back taxes. If no one contests your claim then in a certain amount of time, according to your state laws, the property belongs to you through adverse posession. I would search the probate records and find the attorney or executor of the estate and tell them you want to negotiate.
It still seems like a somewhat worthless step to have that relative quit claim their interest. They don't have the title, they probably don't have rights to the title & they probably don't even care, right?
I guess I don't see where having them sign over their interest to me puts me in a better position to get the title.
Could you clarify this?
Who is the one who can actually grant me the title? A probate officer? Under what conditions would they do so?
There are two ways to go here. One buy from the heirs. Two, do an adverse possession.
If you can locate all of the heirs and get a contract for all of their intrests, you are at step 1. You have a contract that they will sell to your their interest in the property, once they have that ownership. You then get a probate action going in court. After some months, about 6-8 here in CA, the probate makes the heirs the owners of the property. That ends step 2. Now you have the heirs deed over to you their property rights and you are the new owner. Thus ends step 3.
If you cannot locate all of the heirs, things are much more complex. When you start out, you might want to skip working on deals like that.
The mention of getting a quit claim deed from the heirs is working this way. You get a quit claim deed from the heir, who, as you rightly state, does not have an ownership interest. However, you now have a document which purports to show that you have an interest in the property. You pay the propety taxes for the adverse possession period and then go into an adverse possession lawsuit, using your "deeds" as the "color of title" which is required in some states to do adverse possession. And in some states, as was mentioned earllier, it reduces the adverse possession time period.
This latter approach is much less solid than going through a probate and getting deals from the new owners, the heirs.
this is certainly a state specific situation. in PA, a quit claim deed from an heir would mean absolutely nothing. the will would have to be probated and the executor would collect the assets (that includes selling the real estate), pay off any debts (including inheritance tax on the real estate) and disburse the residue pursuant to the will. if there is no will, an administrator is appointed who will collect the assets, pay off any debts and disburse the remainder pursuant to statute.
perhaps there is the odd situation out there where someone actually gets a 'good' piece of property by adverse possession but I believe most times it's used for a 'strip' of land, a driveway, a corner of property, or long ago when things weren't done in as detail as they are now and things 'slipped' through.
Years ago I worked with a surveyor who would file on odd shaped pieces of land that would be between buildings or other properties where the original survey was off.
He called them peanut stands, I wonder if he ever did anything with hundreds of these he recorded.
Maybe he stopped a major shopping center from being built until they purchased the 1 foot by 300 foot peanut stand from him, talk about creative real estate investing.
I would do this before I would try adverse possession.
john , i have seen something very similar . a regular joe owned at piece of land that was about 50'x100' it was in the way of a large warehouseowned by fleming foods. they were in needed of expansion, they needed his land. he got over 2mil. that was 15yrs. ago. i had talked to the old guy he said they were indirectly threating him. he said " they are going to get the @#$% land but they were going to have to pay. they did...kenmax
What I say here applies to California:
Adverse posession in CA is perfectly legal. To be qualified as adverse posession it has to be
1) forcefull
2) the owner should be unaware of that (if he is aware that you are on the premises and says OK to it, then it's not adverse posession; if he says to get out and you don't then police takes you out )
3) you have to pay property taxes for 5 years (you can even pay them all at once, does not have to be yearly), but be sure not to get to tax sale!
4) you have to show active use of the property, meaning that either you yourself show up there, park your car, sleep over sometimes, so neighbors see you; or you can get tennants and collect rent. If this is a land (not a house) then you can plant a crop or trees, build a cabin.
After 5 years you file "quite title" action and get the property.
Risks:
1. If you fix up the property and the owner or a heir shows up - you lose the money that you spent on fixing if they do not want to sell it to you;
2. If you get renters and there is a mortgage on the property and you do not pay it, then it is serious. It's called "rent skimming" and you go to jail.
If the property shows signs of being a candidate for adverse posession and you take over it, the police will not charge you with anything, because this is legal.
I heard of a guy who took posession on a several million worth estate, whose owner was in jail in Argentina.
About a guy who took posession on a land and had cacti crop worth 250K and some building, when owner showed up and filed for eviction. He's got to take his crop and paid for structure removal from the premises.
I read in legal newspaper about a guy who went to jail for rent skimming.
I heard of a woman who took posession of a property that was empty for 2 years and did not pay taxes. After 3 more years the house went to tax sale. She was all upset.
Forgot to add that I can care less about the heirs of deceased people that show up and claim the rights after you take title. If for 5 years that adverse posession takes place they never called, never showed up this means they never cared about the person who died. They are same strangers to the deceased as you are, may be (just may be) connected by blood. So what? Taking care of people - that really counts. If they did not - &$%^! them.
Also if you trying an adverse possesion if you put a lis pendis on the propery while you are in litigation to get a clear title will the sheriff have to back off selling the porperty until litigation is over?
Your attorney will tell you want the details are. I have seen legal notices for quiet title actions--which adverser possession law suit is--where the list of defendants runs for twenty lines in the paper. It would look something like "Old Owner Joe and any heirs of Old Owner Joe and anybody claimining any intresest in the property through Old Owner Joe ..." and so on.
You would have no way to put a lis pendens on the property, I would think. You put a lis pendens on the property when you are filing a lawsuit which could lead to a change in ownership or a monetary lien against the property and you want to save a space in line for your judgment should it come through.
What makes you think you could put in a lis pendens? Oh, maybe once you file your adverse possession/quiet title lawsuit. But you will not be doing that until years from now. You have to pay the property taxes for a certain number of years before you can go to court. That period varies from state to state, from about 5 years up to about 25 years.
thats the thing mr starr i filed my suit already I was only 21 then now im 22 Only way it worked because i tacked on to previous squatters I had the deed in my name, property insurance and partially paid the taxes while i was in court the judge non pros the motion because they werent served properly but b4 they did the sheriff sold the property now theres 68,000 dollars left over and im trying to prove that i had tittle prior to the sale What do I do? do I reopen the suit and try to serve or do i just go to court an make a claim on the money with all my documentation im in desperate need of help! :-(
nwms,
Glad to meet you.
A better question would be how many people make a living doing adverse possession on this board.
Or as a matter of fact have waited 20 years in some states to get the deed.
Then you could ask, have been arrested for breaking and entering or fixed a place up and the owner showed up, I could probably think of some more questions, but these should do for now.
John $Cash$ Locke
[addsig]
I know an old investor who acquired a house this way. The owners died and he somehow found an heir. He was able to do adverse posession and get the deed through color of title. In Tennessee it takes 7 years with color and 20 without. I would look for an heir.
Say I find an heir... what do I do with them? How does this help the situation? They don't have title, so how is giving them money going to help?
A few posts have come up about similar situations where a home owner dies and does not have a will or relative.
On those posts there was a mix of posters saying it was "adverse possession" and others (like myself) said the county handles it as probate or conservership and will sell at tax or auction.
I do know of a broker in Sacramento, California that had contracts with many Northern California counties to list and sell these properties. That broker has a system down ... cleans up the property, list in MLS, sells the personal property, and if it is best will then auction the property.
I tried to have the county where I live to have the contract with me ... but they were satisfied with that broker.
This might be an idea for someone out there to get this type of business in your state and county. Excellent opportunity is many ways. !!
Just like I have some repo companies call me to list and sell their properties ... it would be excellent to have a county call to list and sell a property that the person had no will or relatives.
Cheryl Lopez
NWMS, If you find a distant relative, have them quit claim their interest in the property over to you and then record it. You then move in and pay any back taxes. If no one contests your claim then in a certain amount of time, according to your state laws, the property belongs to you through adverse posession. I would search the probate records and find the attorney or executor of the estate and tell them you want to negotiate.
It still seems like a somewhat worthless step to have that relative quit claim their interest. They don't have the title, they probably don't have rights to the title & they probably don't even care, right?
I guess I don't see where having them sign over their interest to me puts me in a better position to get the title.
Could you clarify this?
Who is the one who can actually grant me the title? A probate officer? Under what conditions would they do so?
nwms--(OR)-----------------
There are two ways to go here. One buy from the heirs. Two, do an adverse possession.
If you can locate all of the heirs and get a contract for all of their intrests, you are at step 1. You have a contract that they will sell to your their interest in the property, once they have that ownership. You then get a probate action going in court. After some months, about 6-8 here in CA, the probate makes the heirs the owners of the property. That ends step 2. Now you have the heirs deed over to you their property rights and you are the new owner. Thus ends step 3.
If you cannot locate all of the heirs, things are much more complex. When you start out, you might want to skip working on deals like that.
The mention of getting a quit claim deed from the heirs is working this way. You get a quit claim deed from the heir, who, as you rightly state, does not have an ownership interest. However, you now have a document which purports to show that you have an interest in the property. You pay the propety taxes for the adverse possession period and then go into an adverse possession lawsuit, using your "deeds" as the "color of title" which is required in some states to do adverse possession. And in some states, as was mentioned earllier, it reduces the adverse possession time period.
This latter approach is much less solid than going through a probate and getting deals from the new owners, the heirs.
Good Investing*********Ron Starr************
Ronald * Starr
Ron,
Did you see Russ Whitney needs some help, you are also one of the top people in the industry when it comes to tax liens and deeds, plase take a look.
http://www.thecreativeinvestor.com/modules.php?mop=modload&name=Forum&file=viewtopic&topic=31608&forum=16
John $Cash$ Locke
[addsig]
this is certainly a state specific situation. in PA, a quit claim deed from an heir would mean absolutely nothing. the will would have to be probated and the executor would collect the assets (that includes selling the real estate), pay off any debts (including inheritance tax on the real estate) and disburse the residue pursuant to the will. if there is no will, an administrator is appointed who will collect the assets, pay off any debts and disburse the remainder pursuant to statute.
perhaps there is the odd situation out there where someone actually gets a 'good' piece of property by adverse possession but I believe most times it's used for a 'strip' of land, a driveway, a corner of property, or long ago when things weren't done in as detail as they are now and things 'slipped' through.
Years ago I worked with a surveyor who would file on odd shaped pieces of land that would be between buildings or other properties where the original survey was off.
He called them peanut stands, I wonder if he ever did anything with hundreds of these he recorded.
Maybe he stopped a major shopping center from being built until they purchased the 1 foot by 300 foot peanut stand from him, talk about creative real estate investing.
I would do this before I would try adverse possession.
John $Cash$ Locke
john , i have seen something very similar . a regular joe owned at piece of land that was about 50'x100' it was in the way of a large warehouseowned by fleming foods. they were in needed of expansion, they needed his land. he got over 2mil. that was 15yrs. ago. i had talked to the old guy he said they were indirectly threating him. he said " they are going to get the @#$% land but they were going to have to pay. they did...kenmax
What I say here applies to California:
)
Adverse posession in CA is perfectly legal. To be qualified as adverse posession it has to be
1) forcefull
2) the owner should be unaware of that (if he is aware that you are on the premises and says OK to it, then it's not adverse posession; if he says to get out and you don't then police takes you out
3) you have to pay property taxes for 5 years (you can even pay them all at once, does not have to be yearly), but be sure not to get to tax sale!
4) you have to show active use of the property, meaning that either you yourself show up there, park your car, sleep over sometimes, so neighbors see you; or you can get tennants and collect rent. If this is a land (not a house) then you can plant a crop or trees, build a cabin.
After 5 years you file "quite title" action and get the property.
Risks:
1. If you fix up the property and the owner or a heir shows up - you lose the money that you spent on fixing if they do not want to sell it to you;
2. If you get renters and there is a mortgage on the property and you do not pay it, then it is serious. It's called "rent skimming" and you go to jail.
If the property shows signs of being a candidate for adverse posession and you take over it, the police will not charge you with anything, because this is legal.
I heard of a guy who took posession on a several million worth estate, whose owner was in jail in Argentina.
About a guy who took posession on a land and had cacti crop worth 250K and some building, when owner showed up and filed for eviction. He's got to take his crop and paid for structure removal from the premises.
I read in legal newspaper about a guy who went to jail for rent skimming.
I heard of a woman who took posession of a property that was empty for 2 years and did not pay taxes. After 3 more years the house went to tax sale. She was all upset.
Forgot to add that I can care less about the heirs of deceased people that show up and claim the rights after you take title. If for 5 years that adverse posession takes place they never called, never showed up this means they never cared about the person who died. They are same strangers to the deceased as you are, may be (just may be) connected by blood. So what? Taking care of people - that really counts. If they did not - &$%^! them.
a/p seems to be something just to play around as with gambling. doesn't seem to be away to make a living to many variables....kenmax
Wow! All very interesting comments
I have a question about adverse possesion, if the owner is deceased and there are no heirs what do you do then? who do you serve?null
Also if you trying an adverse possesion if you put a lis pendis on the propery while you are in litigation to get a clear title will the sheriff have to back off selling the porperty until litigation is over?
horizonrealties--(PA)---------------------
Your attorney will tell you want the details are. I have seen legal notices for quiet title actions--which adverser possession law suit is--where the list of defendants runs for twenty lines in the paper. It would look something like "Old Owner Joe and any heirs of Old Owner Joe and anybody claimining any intresest in the property through Old Owner Joe ..." and so on.
You would have no way to put a lis pendens on the property, I would think. You put a lis pendens on the property when you are filing a lawsuit which could lead to a change in ownership or a monetary lien against the property and you want to save a space in line for your judgment should it come through.
What makes you think you could put in a lis pendens? Oh, maybe once you file your adverse possession/quiet title lawsuit. But you will not be doing that until years from now. You have to pay the property taxes for a certain number of years before you can go to court. That period varies from state to state, from about 5 years up to about 25 years.
Good Investing***********Ron Starr************
thats the thing mr starr i filed my suit already I was only 21 then now im 22 Only way it worked because i tacked on to previous squatters I had the deed in my name, property insurance and partially paid the taxes while i was in court the judge non pros the motion because they werent served properly but b4 they did the sheriff sold the property now theres 68,000 dollars left over and im trying to prove that i had tittle prior to the sale What do I do? do I reopen the suit and try to serve or do i just go to court an make a claim on the money with all my documentation im in desperate need of help! :-(
horizonrealties--(PA)------------------
You need a good real estate attorney to advise you. Ask around to find somebody who is good.
Good Invest ing*************Ron Starr*************
I was thinking of this post when I read this article:
http://www.thecreativeinvestor.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&articleid=732