Adverse Possession In Florida
Can anyone give me some help or point me in the right direction to learn about the rules/laws regarding adverse possession of a vacant lot in Florida without color of title?
Also, assume I believe a lot has been abandoned and pay the property taxes, but, five or six years later, the original owners or heirs appears. Do they owe me re-payment of the taxes I have paid or the cost of any improvements?
Thank you. 
Hi alternativeoptions,
What does UCC-1 mean? I'm a newbie and don't know much about the tax lien end of REI...Your help is most appreciated...Thanks!
Hey!
As you can see, I have been so BUSY with my start-up, I have neglected you guys for a WHOLE YEAR!! So sorry!
In any event, a UCC-1 stands for Universal Commercial Code. It is like filing a lien on someone, and it is done on a state level usually secretary of state. You can file this against the person for the costs you incurr, WITH NO GUARANTEE, because you geenerally need a CONTRACT that it (UCC-1 filing) is enforcing. But I now think that a simple les pendence placing a cloud on title until they pay you is a good if not better approach.
Florida statute 95.18
They would not owe you anything and you would have to show substantial improvement of the land or substantial enclosure.
Look, I don't want to burst anybody's bubble or anything but Adverse possession is not a serious land acquisition strategy. If you seriously attempt to occupy somebody's property and they catch you at it the criminal (trespessing, breaking and entering) and civil penalties are severe. Its nice to dream of camping out on somebody else's land and it becoming yours. It doesn't work that way.
If, on the other hand you purchase the property taxes (not just pay them on time but purchase the taxes or the lien at the delequency sale) you do have some small chance of forclosing on those taxes and getting title.
In the mean time. If you want to make some money in the real estate business try something a little more mainstream. The odds of you ending up in jail are much lower.
good call Ck, I have always thought the adverse possesion law is a joke. I think I will break into someones house and steal there TV, if I am not caught in ten years then it is legally mine..ha. wa state adverse possesion requires 10 years before it can be legally yours. also, there are requirements that must be met to claim adverse possesion and these can be argued in court. I doubt a judge will rule in favor of your plan to purposely set up camp to take what isnt yours. this law was set up for things like a fence accidentally being placed 5 feet over the neighbors lot line, or a home being built over ones property line etc etc. I just studied all these rulles for adverse possesion but cant recall all of them. but one I do remember is the structure has to be considered "permanent". so a tent would not qualify. these are wa state laws though, yours may be different. and if I catch you on my property, I am going to call the cops..ha ha.
Adverse possession is the taking of title to real estate by possessing it for a certain period of time.
Title means ownership of real estate.
The person claiming title to real estate by adverse possession must have actual possession of it that is open, notorious, exclusive and adverse to the claims of other persons to the title. By its very nature, a claim of adverse possession is hostile to the claims of other persons.
It cannot be hidden but must be open and notorious in order to put other persons on notice as to one’s claim for possession of the real estate.
A claim to title by adverse possession often must be made under color of title. Color of title means a claim to title by way of a fact which, although on its face appears to support a person’s claim to title, is in some way defective and falls short of actually establishing title to the real estate.
An example of a claim made under color of title would be a deed whose execution was defective or is in question. Another example is a claim arising from another person’s Last Will and Testament. Yet another common example is where two or more persons have received separate deeds to the same parcel of real estate.
In Florida, the duration of such possession under color of title is seven (7) years. To claim real estate by adverse possession without color of title, a person must have possession for a period of seven (7) years and pay the assessed taxes. Florida Code §95.16-.18.
Some will disagree with me but adverse possession can be a great form of investing as I have participated in many transactions by way of adverse possession but it should not be utilized without legal council as the process can be complicated with all kinds of legal twist and turns.
If you are looking to make your way as an investor this should not be your first form of investing as the returns come by way of years not months.
Good Luck,
[addsig]
Justice1, can you tell me more about the process that your friend went through? Some of what you describe sounds like it's part of the Dorean Group "process" but other things do not. Did your friend have any problems with her mortgage prior to putting it through the Dorean mortgage elimination program? I'd like to see if I can help.
Don't understand why, if she believes in the co. to this very day, why is she trying to borrow money to fight the scam? This group may be different from one I heard about here but does sound similar. If she lost her house, by the way, in foreclosure, that's one www.thing.If she fell into foreclosure and then sought help from this group, they might have structured a deed transfer and then offered a lease www.option.The circumstances would have to be in order and this group may differ from those I've heard of, but deffinetly could have been www.legal.It's all in how they do business and some really leave you in the dark where you feel like you lyed www.to.I invite all to add or disect this info as needed to enlight others..gee
forbes magazine had an article about this last month.
if this were true, everyone would wipe out their mortgage, mortage companies would go under and no one would lend
money for purchase of property.
is that what we want???
Wednesday November 10 4:58 PM ET
Mortgage elimination plans prey upon younger borrowers
By Tom Kelly
Inman News Features
Consumer Real Estate News
This time, senior homeowners are not in the forefront.
Typically, real estate scams target persons with significant equity in their homes, often elders who have resided in the same primary residence for decades. Seniors have been in the crosshairs of equity-skimming deals, outrageous refinance pitches and bogus life insurance plans.
The latest scheme, known as "mortgage elimination," seems to lure younger couples with larger mortgages. The process, along with some others, can definitely be listed under the consumer beware label "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is."
In a capsule, some Internet sites have been promoting the idea that borrowers can get out of their mortgages without repaying their debt. The program sellers, who charge outlandish up-front fees of $6,000-$20,000 then disappear before the mud begins to fly, base their case on old common-law terms and heavily camouflaged rules and false conditions.
The net result is that homeowners can suddenly find themselves taking an active role in real estate fraud – plus the prospect of selling their home to pay for legal fees and other costs they have created.
"I would say that most of the time the target customers are young couples looking for some sort of magical relief from large monthly mortgage payments," said Dwight Bickel, senior vice president and legal counsel for LandAmerica Financial Group, the parent company of Transnation, Commonwealth and Lawyers title insurance companies.
"It's not necessarily seniors in these cases. Maybe that's wisdom that comes with age but they also usually don't have the large outstanding mortgage debt of younger couples."
In the mortgage elimination pitch, the homeowner is persuaded not to be concerned about that fee because the plan is to clear the title, then refinance to get money to pay the fee. When the program reaches its likely ending, the promoters have vanished. The homeowners are likely to lose their home and end up with a significant judgment against them that cannot be discharged in bankruptcy because it is the result of fraud.
According to Rob Sargeant, former national counsel for Stewart Title and now a private title insurance attorney, the program sold to the homeowner is prefaced by an inaccurate assumption that money never really changes hands in the mortgage lending market.
"The program sponsor and its materials go to great lengths to argue that because the primary and secondary residential loan markets do not fund with cash, the loan process is really a sham," Sargeant said.
Sargeant said the program sponsors typically contend that Fannie Mae funds loans with only wire transfers and a system of credits, as does the wholesale loan market. These sponsors then make the leap that a consumer's credit should be just as good as any lender's system.
"How the sponsor makes that argument with a straight face I just can't picture," Sargeant said. "Nonetheless, people are so mesmerized by the description of the loan market process that they usually just accept it. Greed, or the ability to get a quick fix to problems facing the borrower, seems to play a role as well."
Tim Krell, legal counsel for First American Title, said the program planners probably are relying on title companies "to bite" on fraudulent documents and ultimately insure papers that should not be recorded.
"These schemes definitely are on the rise," Krell said. "We have a trustees sale unit that deals with properties that are being foreclosed and a number of major lenders are being hit by this illegitimate practice. Many of these deals are refinances just waiting for the cards to fall."
Phil Jenkins, legal counsel for Chicago Title, said some of the problem is the complexity of the mortgage banking system and the home-loan process.
"The average person does not purchase or refinance a home very often," Jenkins said. "The mortgage lending process is not all that clear to average person. They are asked to sign a bunch of documents and they are not always sure of what they are signing."
According to Bickel, the usual result of a homeowner's attempt to eliminate their existing mortgage liens via a mortgage elimination plan will be that the prior mortgage lender will commence foreclosure. A title search will reveal many unusual documents that are recorded as part of the mortgage elimination procedure, leading some insurers to reject title as unmarketable.
"Title insurance companies will also probably decline to insure a subsequent mortgage from that borrower, due to the risks associated with the attempted mortgage elimination procedure," Bickel said. "In the end, some homeowners will lose the property at the mortgage foreclosure sale. Others will sell the home quickly to stop that foreclosure and extract any remaining equity after paying the prior mortgage lender significant extra fees and costs."
Don't be misled by fancy language and complex documents. Don't fool yourself into thinking that you can walk away from your mortgage without paying the consequences. It's your debt, your loan, and no magic wands can whisk it away.
Tom Kelly's new book "How a Second Home Can Be Your Best Investment" (McGraw-Hill, $16.95) was co-written with John Tuccillo, former chief economist for the National Association of Realtors and is now available in local bookstores and on www.Amazon.com. He can be reached at **Please See My Profile**
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I think this is all I need to know.
Quote:
On 2004-11-07 16:34, Justice1 wrote:
Help!
I have a friend who signed up with the Dorian Group, I suspect this is one of those internet scam companies.
The Dorian Group promises to eliminate your mortgage in +/- 4 months. She lost her house by way of foreclosure and was evicted several months after applying the Dorean Groups methods.
She claims to beleive in this Co. to this day, and says she is going to get her house back. I've done some research on these (scams) and I think she deserved to loose her house.
The hole premise of filing fraudulet documents and then claiming that your debt has been totally eliminated because you have recorded documents is outrageous; our entire financial system would collapse if this were proven to be true.
I've searched numerous chat sites trying to find legitimate people to chat with about this; many of these sites are supporting this type of behavior and actually have members actively involved. These active members claim that nobody that they know has ever had a successfull venture doing this (and I believe this to be true); the agents that are pushing these scams claim 300-400 successful mortgage eliminations and I just know they are lying.
Does anybody know anything about these scams? If so, I'd like to hear any other stories that are related.
My friend is now living with family members and attempting to borrow money from everyone she knows in her attempts to fight this illegal scam.
I told her to accept her mistakes and move on, and to stop fighting this idiotic notion that you can get something for nothing, before you end up in prison.
Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
<font size=-1>[ Edited by Justice1 on Date 11/07/2004 ]</font>
Modog51 you are correct. There is more to this story than this person wants you to know. This person has been on many boards saying how Dorean ruined this person.
The people involved are Ronald and Leslie Case. They have missed 30+ mortgage payments and came to Dorean at the end of their rope. It has been revealed at this forum: http://www.propertysites.com/forums/read.php?TID=531&pagenum=1
Here is where the County records are.
http://146.129.54.93:8193/imgcache/OPR20040503001275-1-3.pdf
The reason this is important to me is I have received my Discharge of Mortgage on Oct 26 2004
http://home.comcast.net/~icufree/Discharge.doc
It's getting late and I got to get some sleep. I'll be back soon.
[addsig]
Purge.
You have polluted yet another site with your ignorant illegal attempt to scam your way out of your mortgage. I have seen your other remarks on "the other" site.
I felt sorry for you originally, now I have total disdain for you. Your attempts at successfully eliminating your mortgage by using the Dorean Group are failing miserably. You have exposed another victim of this scam whom I do not know, although you claim I do. I'm sure they will want to thank you personally.
I assume that Mr. and Mrs. Purge are probably quite busy packing, considering the upcoming eviction?
Stop waisting everybody's time here. These investors are obviously not buying it. :-o
I've been looking in on this discussion with misgivings and thinking it wasn't really something we want to encourage as REIs.
And with this personal vendetta thing arising, I like it even less.
So I'm locking it up. Leaving it on here, but closed to additional posts.
John Merchant